Watership Down Introduction

Hello everyone,

Sorry it took me so long to get this set up; I had to find my book and divide it into manageable chunks for you all to read. (I'm not very good at that, so it took me awhile.) I think I've got at least this first section mostly figured out, but if anyone feels the need to read ahead, please don't hesitate to do so.

For this first session, I'd like for us to read chapters 1 ("The Notice Board") through 11 ("Hard Going") for Tuesday, September 8. The initial chapters are fairly short, but starting with chapter 12 they start getting longer, so I had us stop there. My page numbers are 17-71, though I don't suspect they're like that for every version. I hope I've given you all enough time to read; if you have issues with the length, feel free to let me know and I shall adjust accordingly.

So, in case you missed it, here it is again: Chapter 1 ("The Notice Board") through chapter 11 ("Hard Going") for Tuesday, September 8

And as an added bonus, I'd like to give you all a starting question:

What are your initial thoughts about this book? What are you expecting from this book? What have you heard about it? What thoughts or concerns do you have? If you've already read the book, try and recall what you thought before you first read it. I ask this because I want to know what people think the book is going to be about. This isn't terribly formal or anything...I'm just curious, is all.

Enjoy, everyone!

Ellen

Peace Like a River Final Discussion

I'm posting this a day early, as promised, since I'll be away from computer and internet over the weekend. I was packing and doing laundry when I remembered I needed to get this posted.

Reuben was really slipping into the end of his life. It was just so sad. You hate to see kids get really sick like that. He seemed resigned to it though. What really tore me up, and him too, was Swede's attitude toward him. It wasn't until she realized that he was actually going that she decided to really forgive him.

I was so glad to see Jeremiah and Roxanna tie the knot. I agree with Ruth that Jeremiah was very sweet about courting her. What a shock for her, losing him so soon after marrying.

Walzer was everything we had feared. Poor Andreeson never stood a chance against him. On the one hand I was glad that Davy came home and Sara was saved, but on the other you just knew something bad was going to happen. I was crushed when Jeremiah was hit but even moreso when Reuben went down.

So, Reuben saw the promised land? The description was similar to others I've read. I wasn't surprised to see Jeremiah there since we knew he had been injured. I was really glad to see that final miracle but still felt sort of cheated that Jeremiah didn't come back too. It makes sense that he didn't come back but I just really wanted him to be happy with Roxanna.

Tell me what you thought of the book. Like I said earlier, what I really love about the book is the beautiful language. I love the words he chooses, the way he phrases things, the poetry... just all the language. I also like the mystery and tension in the story. The characters are all well-done too. We never really know all that much about Davy but in the end we see that it makes sense because Reuben never really knew much about Davy either, even though they were able to meet again.

I hope you all enjoyed Peace Like a River and I'm looking forward to the next one.

Peace Like a River Discussion 7/31/09

Finally, Davy reappears. I never really know how I want to feel about Davy. On the one hand, I think I can understand his outrage and wish him well. On the other hand, he makes me nervous. I wonder if Reuben feels the same way. He's the only one in the family who knows where Davy is, has actually seen him and talked to him, but the visits are unsettling, filling Reuben with a guilt that he's not sure he can handle. Reuben's illness is also frightening. I don't have asthma but I've had trouble getting my breath when I had pneumonia and it's scary. You also feel pretty useless when just going for a walk is exhausting.

Jape Waltzer is a scary thought no matter how you look at him. I thought it was interesting that Davy claimed that he wasn't afraid of Waltzer yet he listened close when Jape was around. You can't help but think that Davy may have jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire. It's extremely ironic that Sara, now 14, was probably about Swede's age when she was handed over to Waltzer. Davy killed two people for an evening spent abusing his sister, yet seems alright with the abuse that Sara has suffered for years. Sara made me very sad. I was proud of Reuben for realizing what Waltzer had planned. I guess I'm not a very good detective because I didn't see it coming.

These chapters were full of foreboding and probably some symbolism that I didn't quite catch. At one point Reuben talks about Andreeson as his enemy but I got to wondering who the real antagonist is in the story. I do apologize for stopping when I did. I couldn't help myself. :-D

On to the end of book for next week.

Peace Like a River discussion 7/25/09

Sorry for posting a day late. I had an unexpected One Piece chat last night that has complicated all my plans and I'm getting sick. Excuses over now on to the discussion.

I love the way Andreeson is suddenly made to be more human in the last chapter. No one likes him but he's not an evil person. I can just picture him I think. It's easy to see how his ingratiating manner would bother everyone. At the same time, he's just trying to do his job. Jeremiah is not going to lie. Andreeson knows this and takes advantage of it when asking if Davy had contacted August and Birdie. Jeremiah is not going to compromise his principles and is assuming that God will take care of August and Birdie. Yet even though Andreeson knows that Jeremiah won't lie, he still hopes that Jeremiah knows more than he's saying.

Just a mention of the language in this section...I like the way Rueben compares his style of writing as the witness with Swede's much more romantic style.

We are introduced to a new character. Roxanna is such a real person. Once again Rueben is painfully honest when he admits that he didn't think she was really pretty the first time they saw her. That is the reality of life. Very few people are truly beautiful in the popular culture sense and Enger doesn't waste his time populating his novel with them. These are characters that live and breathe and with whom we can identify. Roxanna is a brave soul, allowing a strange man into her house like that. On the other hand we have gotten the impression that Jeremiah is little more than a skeleton at this point and he has these two kids to support so I suppose that he looked much safer than most.

I love the sense of relief we get in this section. The family has finally reached a safe harbor. We don't know what's going to happen next but at least they now have the necessities of life. Now, what's up with Davy?

Edit: Had to add labels and what to read next.
Read through Boy Ready, p. 274 in my edition.

Setting for Peace Like a River

When I first started reading this book, I wasn't sure what the setting was. I figured that Roofing was in outstate Minnesota somewhere and their travels confirm this impression. Enger was born and raised in Minnesota so he knows this place well. Half of all Minnesotas live in the Twin Cities metro area so anyplace that is outside the metro area is called "outstate." There is often some tension between these parties, claiming that more money is spent on the metro area, etc. My parents come from the southeast corner of North Dakota, right on the Minnesota border, and I now live in Minnesota, so it's easy for me to envision this setting.

One of the things that confused me initially was the time period. It is finally fully confirmed in this section as 1963. I would have been 10 years old at the time. Towns are far apart and traveling in a gas guzzling car at that time could easily have been a huge problem. I myself have driven into a gas station running on fumes because I didn't stop one town earlier.

Once again the place and time really resonate with me. I know how cold and miserable it can be. I've traveled through North Dakota many times, in all seasons, and if it's not too cold, it's too hot and muggy and buggy. You really can't imagine how flat the landscape is if you haven't been through it. The reason that the flooding Red River is so devastating is because of the flat land. Once it leaves the bank the water has miles and miles of completely flat land to spread out. That's why the Badlands are so dramatic. They are really gorgeous, very colorful and interesting to look at. Their history as a hiding place for Native Americans and outlaws alike would have fascinated Swede. It's a natural, but also dangerous place for someone on the run to hide.

Comments on Peace Like a River 7/17/09

I decided to go ahead and post another thread just for discussion of the last reading. There were some things that struck me in this one so I thought maybe others would feel the same way. We can put those things here.

I love Reuben's comments just thrown out there about faith. "Once traveling, it's remarkable how quickly faith erodes. It starts to look like something else -- ignorance, for example."

"Was it possible that real loss had occurred at the death of Israel Finch?" That sentence in reference to Finch's grandfather (I think that's right) shows how Rueben is starting to see the unanticipated consequences of Davy's actions. One of the things I like about Reuben is his unwavering examination of all aspects of the situation, even if they make him uncomfortable.

What do the dead crows on the road symbolize?

Justice in Peace Like a River

As suggested in the last one, this thread will be about what I think is one of the major themes of the book. Sometimes it seems like no matter where you look you see some mention of this theme. Sometimes it is a well-developed part of the plot and sometimes it's not much more than a sentence.

The plot is riddled with references or inferences to justice. Davy is outraged by Finch and Basca. The fact that no one seems to be willing to bring them to justice is what, I think, ultimately gets under his skin more than he can stand. By kidnapping Swede they violated someone Davy held dear. He responded by violating something they were fond of, a rather rough justice.

Justice for Davy is rather complicated. He's not surprised about the arrest and seems to be prepared for the justice that the jury would soon deliver. Then he decides that he doesn't want to face it and heads out. Since we don't know that much about him yet, it's not clear whether he was planning on doing this all along or whether it was a later development. However, Davy has not been brought to justice and you have to wonder what's going to happen to him.

All the media hoopla over the deaths and trial demonstrates a kind of justice by public opinion. Enger does a good job showing how the various views morphed during the trial. As mentioned in another thread, the letter to Davy that starts, "Dear Butcher," seems extreme but sounds like something an editor might come across in a mail bag. In fact, Davy is neither a poor misunderstood kid, nor a butcher so what is an appropriate punishment? Where's the justice in this situation? I think that Rueben is struggling to find it but he loves his brother and is afraid of what the outcome will be.

What about the healing of the superintendent? On the surface it looks like Jeremiah is being sorely used by fate and self-important men and he just doesn't deserve this grief. On the other hand the superintendent is scum who deserves the face he got. How can the healing of that face be considered justice?

Feel free to add to this thread as we continue through the book.