I am just starting volume # 7 and so I am going to pose some question from that vantage point of reading beyond volume 3 & 4. There were lots of characters introduced in 3 & 4, I know we will have time to talk about them and why we like/don’t like them (Yeah. . . I am talking about Hiro) in another thread.I must admit I really like the first two volumes, this being my first manga, it took some time to adjust to the format but I like it. Overall I love stories that are driven by relationships and I could see some good relationships set up in 1 & 2. However, when I read 3 & 4 it seemed that those relationships didn’t advance. It just seemed more people are throne into the mix. . . . But looking back now from # 6 I can see that this needs to happen to attain some higher levels of angst and complicated relationship dynamics.
I think one relationship that we could talk about is Kyo, Yuki & Tohru. This is like a reverse love-triangle. Kyo and Yuki both love Tohru and want to protect her. Kyo and Yuki are brought together closer because of the relationship they have with Tohru, when typically a literary “love triangle” would drive drive two characters apart, I find that very interesting.
A Few Questions:
What type of conflicts do you think make these relationships so dynamic?
This book is very physical and emotional, what do you think motivates each character to find balance/self-awareness in these realms?
One more question about the art (since this is a graphic novel). . . Do you think the art and images convey emotion (or a depth of the story) that text cannot? Would this story be as good as a prose?
10 comments:
I'm also reading way ahead, just because I love this series so much and once I get started I find it difficult to stop.
I like your question about the conflicts in the relationships. As the story progresses we will learn a lot more about all these characters and their past, and a lot of this conflict will become clear, but I think one of the major issues with all of the relationships, not just the triangle you mentioned with Kyo, Tohru, and Yuki, is pain. Everyone has their secret or not-so-secret emotional pain that makes them reluctant to trust or more determined than ever to try, depending on the person, and the ways that they learn to deal with that pain is what will cause the relationships to grow and change. This includes possibly romantic relationships like the triangle or familial relationships like that of Yuki and Ayame, and even just family relationships, whether they are rivalries like that of Kyo and Yuki or forced affection such as Kagura shows to Kyo.
Your question about balance and self-awareness I think also relates to pain in many ways, and the methods they all use for coping that pain, along with Tohru's gentle influence and unquestioning acceptance, are what causes them to even seek any kind of balance or an increase in self-awareness. Some have the physical outlets, like Kyo and Hatsuharu with their martial arts and Yuki with his gardening...the physical outlet provides a balance in emotion that works for their temperament. Others, who are not accustomed to accommodating the feelings of others, like Ayame, try to force their own balance while thinking only of their own self-awareness and disregarding the other person's perspective. Again, Tohru can see that and bring some awareness to Ayame of the need for real balance, not just his perceived balance between himself and Yuki.
I think if Fruits Basket were to be made into prose, the chapters would be very short and almost episodic, and the majority of the text would be dialogue. The art is a wonderful means of putting you in the moment of the action in a way that is difficult to do well in text...by the time you finish reading the details of the scene and get to the actual confrontation, it feels like the action is long since over, especially for a personality like Kyo who flies off the handle very quickly and just as quickly changes moods. The subtle expressions and gestures add even more to this, and to me are much more powerful in the softer moments, when maybe someone touches someone, or you see a softening of expression.
I think the love triangle between Kyo, Yuki, and Tohru is unique as Karla pointed out. I just read the latest volume in another series yesterday, and the love triangle in that story is much more traditional with the two guys extremely antagonistic towards each other in a different way than the bickering that Kyo and Yuki resort to. As much as Yuki and Kyo can't stand each other, they do seem to be getting along better. Maybe it's for Tohru's sake, or maybe it's because they really are softening under her influence.
I enjoyed reading Angela's comments about self-awareness and balance. I agree that their different ways of coping with pain affects this. In volume 4 we get Momiji's back story, and his is one of the more heart wrenching ones for me. As much as I feel for Hatori, he does have the option, if he so chooses, of finding love again. It would be a big step for him, requiring himself to open up to the possibility of being hurt and rejected again. But, in Momiji's case, he's rejected by his very own mother. Yet, he shows an amazing strength, even to the point of seeking her out and watching over her from afar when he's still very much a child himself. I love what he says: "...I want to think that there's no such thing as a memory that's okay to forget." So, that's how Momiji is able to find balance with the chaos around him of a mother who has rejected him, a father who has in a sense also rejected him...even though Momiji may be the most annoying character in the story (that is, until you meet Hiro, hee hee - I had to laugh at your comment, Karla!), he's got something to him that makes him great.
When I come across a manga that I love, I often ask myself if the story would be just as good as in prose. Usually, the answer is no. There's just something about the way the art tells the story just as much as the dialogue that prose wouldn't be able to capture. And in Fruits Basket's particular case, the animal transformations wouldn't be as darling! There's a lot of depth to the art, lots of little details. Also, like Angela mentioned, there are lots of quick turn-arounds with the mood, not to mention lots of little aside humor that enriches the story, but would be out of place in a prose format. And, of course, there are always those parts in the story where the art is all that is needed. No text, no dialogue. Just a certain look in a character's eyes or the expression on their face is all that is needed to tell the story that can't necessarily be put into words.
Just a few quick comments - a nice thing that Takaya does is that when a lot of characters are speaking, she'll put a symbol in the bubble to indicate who is saying what. She uses the zodiac animals for the juunishi, an onigiri (rice ball) for Tohru. If you see a fish, that is Uo speaking (in reference to the kanji used in her name). Hana is the flower, again in reference to her family name. If there are ever any questions about reading the manga, please ask here. If you don't know the story and do any online searching (including wikipedia) you will be spoiled. People have no sense of keeping aspects of the story a mystery online. :P I'm probably the only one that likes to search and look things up, but I had to add this caution just because it's a lot more fun when you read the story and do not know what's going to happen. :)
Also, looks like people are reading along just fine. I worried that we were reading too much too fast, but even I am getting ahead. I'm sick today, so I've been laying down as much as I can and reading when my kids let me. I'm midway through 5. If we want to open the discussion up to more volumes at a time or something, we can always adjust. Or we can keep it the way it is. Everyone is busy at different times and if we take on too much as once, it might cause people to fall behind. Just thought I'd toss the idea out there for consideration, though.
Kate, Thanks for the warning about online spoilers. . . I hate that (someone just spoiled the last Harry Potter book for me :( I have not read it yet).
I loved both of your comments and insights. It makes reading the material a richer experience to hear your comments.
I am a little sad, I am reading the last "Ultimate Volume" that is released (it has two volumes in each book) and will be sad to go to the smaller books that that paperback. Oh well . . .
I'm really sorry to hear that about Harry Potter! That's really too bad.
I keep telling Brian that he needs to join the discussion because we've had fun talking as I've been rereading the series. He tells me to just write down what he says. This story is one that really is more enjoyable when you can discuss things. The further we get into the story, the more we can draw from these early chapters, too, and discussion will help with that.
How many ultimate editions are there? I was at the bookstore yesterday and I flipped through one of the volumes. I've never really looked into one of them before - I bought all the separate volumes as they were slowly released (some times we had to wait 6 months for a new release) - and they are very nice. The art is slightly bigger, which is a plus with the smaller text. Now I am curious about how far you are in the story. As much as I love the early volumes, I admit that I really started to enjoy the story once we hit the double digit volumes.
I have to agree with Kate on this one...once we get into the real meat of the story, it gets so you just don't want to stop reading. I can't help myself, I just finished volume 18, and I get the feeling I'm going to power through the whole manga this weekend. I saw the Ultimate Editions when they came out (I used to work in a bookstore) but since they didn't contain anything new that I could see, I didn't bother with them, because I also bought the volumes as they came out, after Kate introduced me to them. I really have her to thank for a lot of the manga I read. Mostly hits, a miss here and there, and I'm a dedicated otaku. Oh yeah, as far as ultimate editions like that go, I did find out that for some manga they do special stuff. In the Dragonball ones, the first couple chapters of each one are in color!
I'm still not done with all of 4 because I have a lot to read for work these days.
Some of my favorite sections are the ones where Shigure is talking to Hatori. There they are, both smoking, almost like they're up to something. Shigure is as confusing as ever. He objects to the assertion that he is using Tohru and yet he says that he will do anything, even allow someone to get hurt in the process, to reach his ultimate goal. This sentiment is so opposite of Tohru's philosophy and it's hard to see how he can possibility NOT be using her for some reason that we don't know. In these conversations I believe we get the tiniest hints of the direction of the story but have nothing to tie the information to.
The reverse love triangle mentioned above is a really cool observation. One thing that I wonder is if Kyo and Tohru are related somehow - I mean, we know practically nothing about either Kyo or Kyoko's families, and Tohru's friends both made the observation that they have the same colored hair. That would really throw this love triangle for a loop. Like Luke, Leia, and Han. ;)
I agree that this story really only works for manga. There's so much plot and character development that it almost reminds me of a TV series but in book form. The pictures, conversation, and even lack of conversation (....----) convey so much that a novel couldn't. I also got to thinking about how manga kind of reminds me of storyboards that people create when making movies.
It seems like there was more that I had to share, but I can't remember it so I'll stop for now.
I've read through #10 and am stopping there until our reading schedule catches up, but it was so hard to stop. I can't continue until I get the next batch from the friend I'm borrowing from. I knew I had to create a built-in speed bump for myself.
I'm interested in leading the discussion for either 7/8 or 9/10. I really don't have a preference.
One other thing I want to share is that I'm watching the anime to remind me of what I've read and it's so charming! I'm glad I've read the books first, but it's fun that the anime kind of stretches out some of the situations in the manga that are kept short. They're hilarious! One thing I don't like is some of the voices/ways of talking are not how I imagined them. Aya's in particular. He's so.......flamboyant!
Hm...regarding Kyoko's hair color...she was a yankee so it was probably dyed. Even though Uo is no longer in a gang, she still maintains her hair color. I do think that there are some interesting parallels between Kyo and Kyoko, though, with their hair color and even their name sounds similar. With relations, though, in Japan it is legal to marry your first cousin. So, while it's never explained how closely related all the Sohmas are, it is interesting to note how many form relationships within the family - Hatori and Kana (it is mentioned that she is a Sohma), Kagura and Kyo (although can't say the affection is mutual on both sides :P ). I never really paid attention to it before, but during this read through, it stood out to me more for some reason.
Ha ha...I like your built-in speed bump. I read through 11 because I was sick last week and decided I might as well read to take my mind off my misery. Now Daniel keeps running and getting me my "zodiac" books. For fun over the weekend we looked up all our Chinese Zodiac signs - I'm the horse, Brian is the goat/sheep, Daniel is the monkey, James the dog, and Lizzy the ox (ha ha). Anyway, I'm not reading further until our discussion catches up as well.
Great! So now we just need to find someone willing to lead 5/6. Angst is in high gear with these next two volumes...who's up to the task? If you want to lead that one, too, Ruth, you're more than welcome.
How far are you in the anime, or did you finish it? It is incredibly darling - there are some parts of it that I love very much - so I'm glad you're enjoying it. :)
Posting for 5/6 doesn't work for me because this weekend is Byron's birthday and we have family coming into town. Sorry!
No worries, Ruth! I hope you have a fun family party and happy birthday to Byron!
I checked with Angela and she's got a lot going on this weekend, so I am going to take the discussion for 5/6. I'll have that post up pretty soon, I hope!
It looks like between Angela and Ruth, we'll have 7/8 and 9/10 covered. And then we'll go from there on how we want to proceed. Thanks to everyone being willing!
Post a Comment