I'm glad everyone is excited to get started. There's so much to discuss.
I think the place to start is by taking a look at the manga format. The illustrations are an integral part of the story. Sometimes it helps to just look at the pictures before starting to read. I used to read everything in a panel and then move on to the next. Now I try to follow a conversation or thought through to a logical stopping place and then go back and pick up whatever I didn't read yet. The hardest part for me is the teeny tiny writing. I don't think it's generally central to the story line but often this is where the comedy resides. Reading manga may be slightly faster than reading a book but I find that you can spend just as long on a manga page as you would if you were reading a page of text. I'm not real sure how manga compares to comic books. Maybe someone more experienced with the comic format can speak to the differences.
Fruits Basket is a mixture of genres but I think the one that stands out most to me is mystery. Maybe others will disagree because it is a very different kind of mystery story. Some of the mysteries are solved very quickly. For instance, you get some hints from the dialogue that it's dangerous for a girl to be living in a Sohma house. When Tohru turns Kyo into a cat you have your answer to that mystery. The answer suddenly turns the mystery into a fantasy but the mystery never goes away. In fact, the fantasy aspect deepens the mystery. There are many layers of mystery within mystery to be pulled apart.
What is this curse? How and when did it get started? Can the curse be broken? How much of a hold does it really have on them? These are just a few of the mysterious plot elements. The characters themselves are also mysterious. Akito, the practically cloistered head of the family, seems to epitomize the mysterious character element. Shigure knows far more than he tells and is rather enigmatic. I think we could really take the story apart, if anyone is interested in doing that. I would love to discuss each character in depth.
On the topic of characters...how about Tohru? She's quite the good little housewife. What does this say about women in Japanese society? We could include Tohru's friends in that discussion. Don't get me wrong. I really, really like Tohru. She's incredibly strong and yet surprisingly innocent. At first glance it seems that she doesn't have as many layers to examine but I'm not so sure.
Finally, is that not the cutest rat you have ever seen?? Reading this a second time I'm seeing so many things that I missed the first time I read it. You really couldn't have seen those things unless you had read it through, knew the situation and the characters and started over again. I'm more impressed with Takaya's work and all the layers she adds to the story.
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I've already read this series, but I love it so much that reading it again is not something I'm at all bothered about. The curse...we get very little info in the early chapters about what caused it or whether it can be broken, or even the full details of it. Everyone is very secretive. Shigure in particular seems to have a way of almost revealing too much and then slipping behind the veil. He's very enigmatic, and has a sneakiness to him that makes me feel like he'd be better as the rat than Yuki, who it's hard to imagine being sneaky at all.
Tohru...she's caught in an unusual situation for a Japanese girl, and I think it will become more clear why the more we learn about her past. We know that her mother died in an accident, and her father isn't around either, so she kind of gets forced on her relatives, but she tries to be helpful and hardworking and pull her own weight. What I like most about her is how accepting she is of everyone regardless of what even her suspicions are of them. Traditionally, once a woman is married in Japanese society, they do not work outside the home, and play the role of mother and housewife, but in modern society this is changing, because many young women refuse to give up on an active life where they are in control of their own money, so many are refusing to marry. Tohru seems more than willing to embrace that traditional role though. I won't say much more, since I don't want to spoil and I couldn't help reading ahead, but I'm so excited to be reading this series.
Hello All,
I am new here. This will be my first book with the group and I am looking forward to it. If you are on goodreads my account is: http://www.goodreads.com/kalala, Feel free to "friend" me :)
As for the book. . . this is my first manga novel. I thought it would be a faster read, but for me it is not. I find that to truly "get" what is happening I need to spend just as much time on a page of the graphic novel as I would a traditional novel. The art is very stylized and pretty amazing.
I have read a couple graphic novels, but it is hard to compare them to this. The only other graphic novels I read had no text, only illustration. The first graphic novel I read was "The Arrival" by Shaun Tan and it blew me away.
This book has a Young Adult feel that I did not expect. I am only about 100 pages in and already I can see some of those YA themes threaded through out.
I am looking forward to finding out what happens and feel a connection with the characters.
On a down note, this format is not an effortless read. It does feel like work to try and pull all the story out of the text and images. I appreciate the idea of looking at the images first then going back for the text, that seems like a helpful tip.
For me. . . so far so good.
One of the reasons why I enjoy manga, especially when I hit on a series that I just love, is that I can go back to the story over and over again and see new things. The art and the text compliment each other, and you need both to tell the whole story. But, it's also up to you to interpret the meaning behind the words, the facial expressions, and the context of the moment. Sometimes I misunderstand or don't fully understand a part of a story the first time through, but as I read further, I will go back to a pivotal moment I didn't fully appreciate earlier and see new meanings or understand it better. I think that's kind of like what you're saying, Debra, about how you might miss things the first time through (and even the second time as is my case sometimes!). This requirement of interpretation (where the story isn't always spelled out for you), is what makes manga interesting to me and why I think some stories in particular really benefit from a discussion. Fruits Basket is such a story and I'm really looking forward to our discussions each week.
Hm...I have to echo the thoughts that Fruits Basket isn't as quick reading as you might think. I forgot how dense it was, both with dialogue, but also with the details in the art. I have read some lighter series lately, and I can plow through them, but Fruits Basket, even though I've read it before, really had me slowing down. For me (and Brian, too - I asked him), I read the dialogue until a good stopping place and then go back and study the art.
Brian and I both feel that Fruits Basket is a perfect study of character development, so I would love to discuss each character in detail. I think the story really lends itself well to do that. We don't know a lot thus far, but enough to get a feel for the characters we have met.
I have to admit that I'm not partial to Kagura or Momiji when we first meet them. I have a hard time understanding Kagura's treatment of Kyo; she's just too aggressive. Maybe she really does fit well with the boar...does the curse cause them to behave like their animals, I wonder? hee hee
Brian speaks German, so when he gets a moment, I'll have him translate the German that Momiji speaks. It's not necessary to the story, but just for fun. Momiji comes off as really silly. He can be quite annoying, too.
Hatori is one of my favorites. I'll just admit that right away. I love the irony of a doctor who smokes. I also love his character design with his piercing eye. He's a great foil to Shigure's humor and teasing. In one of the comment areas, Takaya (when she's not talking about gaming...ah, she makes me laugh), mentioned that Shigure and Hatori make a popular pair. I have to agree. It'll be interesting to follow their relationship.
Just some comments - reading through this, I forgot how many cultural references there are. If there are ever any questions about things, please ask. For example, it seems like there is some kind of obsession with cross-dressing, so just accept that Yuki wears a dress for the older high school girls and you're good.
The different names they call each other can be confusing, too, especially when they throw in nicknames (Shigure has a ton). Also, changing from addressing someone with the honorific -san to -kun is significant in a relationship. Changing from addressing someone by their family name to their given name is significant, too. Being able to watch for these nuances enriches the relationships between the characters. So, in this set of reading, we saw Tohru call Kyo Kyo-san and change to Kyo-kun when he ordered her to. Kyo doesn't like to be addressed formally for some reason.
Last but not least, welcome to the discussion, Karla! I hope you continue to enjoy Fruits Basket.
Welcome, Karla! I think you're the only other person I've met who spells that name with a K like my sister. My uncles used to tease her when she was little by calling her "Karla with a K". Anyway, I'm glad you could join us.
I'd also like to discuss characters in depth. It's been a while since I read this, though I've read it multiple times before, and it isn't hard from the beginning to see how much I love both the art and the words, though being who I am, my eye is automatically drawn to the words before the art. I love the style, and the detail given especially to things like clothing and hair. I'm proud to understand more of the Japanese custom and language (I can read much more of the kana this time around, my studies are paying off!) and appreciate (or even notice for the first time) the nuances. I like that Kyo isn't interested in being addressed formally, he doesn't strike me as a formal kind of guy in any way. He doesn't even wear his tie with his school uniform. Kyo-kun just seems to flow better than Kyo-san.
For most of the characters, on the cross-dressing subject, it really comes off as cosplay more than anything, just like we would dress up for Halloween or a convention or whatever, so it's easy enough to take it with a grain of salt, especially with someone like Yuki who doesn't do it often. He's also too polite to refuse a request by the senior girls, which also says a lot about him. I'm a rat like Yuki, and I recognize similar qualities in us. As you meet the members of the juunishi, once you get to your own, see if you do recognize the qualities associated with that sign. It makes for a lot of extra fun.
Ah, wonderful comments. Now where to start.
First of all welcome to the discussion Karla. You're at something of a disadvantage since most of us have already read the series but I'm sure you find your stride when you know the characters better. You're instincts about the young adult feel of the story are correct I think. In fact, I recommended this series to the librarian at the middle school in my district.
The characters are such an important part of the story that I'm tempted to start a separate thread just to keep track of them. How does everyone feel about that?
Ruth is new to the series, too, and I'm looking forward to her comments when she's able to post.
A separate discussion about characters would be good. More will be added as we go along, and while some will have greater depth to them than others, there are still a lot to keep track of.
A separate thread for the characters sounds good to me, just for the sake of the new folks who need to keep track of them. I already have my favorites (Kyo is one of them, as Kate and Debra know very well) but I love plenty of the others too. How do we want to go about this, just keep coming back to the characters post as new characters get added, or make a separate post for each new one that can be added to and commented on as we go?
Is it possible to edit a post? If so we can just add them as they show up in the story.
Yes, you can go back and edit the posts. I was thinking about that, too.
Hey everyone!
Sorry I'm so late in joining the discussion.
I'm going to write down my thoughts without reading what anyone else has written yet, because I find that when I do, it changes what I'd planned on saying.
So....
It took me a while to get the hang of reading. I had to reread more than a few times, and I had trouble following what was going on, or if I was reading thoughts or verbal conversation, and who was saying what. But I've got a better hang of it now.
I'm loving Fruits Basket. I love the reasoning behind the name, which we found out was because it was a childhood game that Tohru was viciously(?) left out of. And I know how she feels. I remember trying to play tag with a bunch of schoolmates and no one ever trying to chase me. The story gives us some insight that Tohru isn't exactly the most popular girl at school. And, with the exception of her best friends, maybe even a loner.
I love the deep insights sprinkled through the book - the ability to be comfortable in social situations takes practice; everyone has an onigiri on their back, we can see other's but not our own; people are essentially selfish and it's something we need to overcome to become better people. I'm probably missing a few.
It seems that of the members of the zodiac we've met, they all display characteristics of their animals in a few ways at least. But with Kyo, he seems so high strung that he seems very uncatlike. True he gets sleepy when it rains, likes heights. But then there was a allusion too a true form, and maybe there something to that. Can hardly what to find out!
I gotta go for now and come back later to read the other commments and write more.
Ciao!
I also liked that this series is sprinkled with so much depth. I have also spent a lot time thinking about the title and the metaphor there. I am glad I am not the only one.
It also look me some time to get acclimatized to the format. Now I am annoyed that my next book is not at the library because I want to see what happens.
Our heroine seems a lot like Pollyanna. She is not too interesting to read about alone, but when you contrast her with all the other characters I love to see the clash of ideas and how they each soften (or harden with manipulation) at her presence.
The author really has started to build a great dynamic.
Tohru is a catalyst for the juunishi as each is drawn to her (sometimes unwillingly) and changed by her. What is surprising is that she is just a regular girl, even a somewhat surprising sort of person to be a heroine of a story. Yet, I find something so compelling about her myself. Usually a character that is so impossibly sweet as Tohru might come off as shallow or one-dimensional, but it's certainly not the case with her. She has a lot to offer; I'm looking forward to discussing her character as the story moves along.
Speaking of the story moving along, Friday is coming up...does anyone want to volunteer to host the discussion for volumes 3 and 4? I don't want to put anyone on the spot, but I think it would be really insightful to hear what someone new to the story wants to discuss with these next chapters. :) [I glanced through volume 4 and we meet Aya...I'm curious to see what everyone's reactions are to him. Personally, I adore him. He is good for my blood pressure. :D ]
I just dropped off my volume 3 & 4 book at the library, (I so I might be fuzzy on some things) but if no one else volunteers I could come up some questions to guide our discussion on this. It seems that since we are covering the whole series everyone will probably get a chance to lead.
I've been reading kids books for work so I haven't read 3 & 4 yet. I'll try to do at least 3 tomorrow and I'll work on a character guide over the weekend.
Why don't you plan on starting the discussion for volumes 3 and 4, Karla? Thanks for being willing!
Thanks for setting up the character guide, Debra!
Okay, I just finished reading everyone's commnents. Hmmm. Where to start?
I love the comparison to Pollyanna, Karla. (and welcome to the group too!)
Thanks for the cross-dressing clarification. I was kind of confused about that. And it seems like a lot of the male characters can be very femmy in their styles. It reminds me of an episode of "Bones" where they brought in a Japanese consultant and no one could tell this person's gender. Then someone went on to explain that androgenous appearances are pretty popular nowadays in Japan.
My dad lived in Japan for 2 years, and growing up I would hear about it now and then. I remember him telling me about the formalities in names, but now I'm really understanding it. I'm going to start looking for that now, Kate. Every once in a while someone comments on how Tohru is so formal. Will we find out why, or that just part of who she is?
We haven't seen the end of the cross-dressing, either, but it's like you said, Ruth, it's a cultural thing. It's probably also a manga thing. :D
All I am going to say is that you are incredibly insightful, Ruth. Keep reading. :)
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