The Giver: Part 2

I apologize for my lack of post yesterday, I was at a family event and didn't get home or to my computer until after midnight, so I figured I'd give it until tonight when I was actually coherent to post my thoughts on part 2.

I'll start with some discussion questions to get us going, and we can move along from there with impressions of story, characters, or thoughts on the ending. Now that Jonas has realized how much the community is really lacking in feelings and experience, what is your impression of their lives? What about their casual attitude towards things like release, killing and disposing of people who in any way disrupt the order of their world? What about the memories the Giver gives to Jonas, the way he helps him to understand things like color (just imagine trying to describe color to someone who has never seen it, I wouldn't even know where to start) and various emotions. What did you think of the description of the word "love" as so generalized it has become obsolete? Finally, what about the ending? Did it live up to the rest of the book, or did it feel a little anticlimactic? Was Jonas dreaming, or dying, or did he actually stumble upon a sled waiting for him in a memory that was actually his own?

The Giver: Part 1

Let's go ahead and open up discussion for the first reading section of The Giver. I know most of us have read it before, but what were your initial impressions of the lives these people lead and the community to which they belong? What about their perceptions of things like emotions at this stage in the reading? More on that in the next section, but initially, what was the impression? How about the idea of children and parents not being related by blood, someone else evaluating you and choosing your future for you, including spouse, your job, where you live, and how you think? Basically, to begin with, I'd like to discuss all the aspects of this society that we've noticed and how well (or poorly) they function, and how they affect these people's lives. Then we can open it up from there and go on to Jonas and how his Ceremony of Twelve changes things for him within the society.

The Giver Reading Schedule

I've looked over my copy of The Giver, and as short as it is (180 pages in my edition)I think we can finish it in two weeks easily, and cut it very nearly in half, which actually works out well as far as the plot of the book. If everyone is willing to read this many pages, I'm thinking we could go through chapter 9, which I'm seeing as 70 pages in my copy. I can do this by the end of the week, but I don't know if that suits everyone else's schedule. How about we try to get it read by Sunday night, February 20th, and the second half by the following Sunday, the 27th? Let me know if this works, if we need to tweak it, and hope you guys enjoy! Some food for thought on the first section: pay attention to adjectives, or the lack thereof, and also to the rigidity of the society and the interactions of the people. How comfortable would you be living in such a society, and to what extent do you consider the lives these people lead fulfilling, or even humane?

New Year, New Reading List

Hey guys, so we kind of lost our motivation after Fruits Basket last year and never chose any new books, but for the new year we're thinking we'd like to scrap our old reading list, start from scratch, and see if we can get this going again. Not to say that things on our list are bad, but we figure it's just a good idea to start fresh. So we'll clear the list, open it up for new (or re-) submissions, and see if we can get started. As before, we can opt in or out of each reading selection, no pressure. And if anyone has any other suggestions for improving this group, please let us know. We'd like to start reading in the next couple weeks, so please think about your book, post it, and we can decide who will go first. Thanks guys!

Fruits Basket volumes 19-23

At first I was surprised that I was going to be discussing FIVE volumes but it actually takes five volumes to tell the end. It needs to take that long because these people are becoming human. We didn't really think of them as monsters but Shigure points out that they really are. How long does it take a monster to become human? Takaya lingers on the details as she unravels the threads of the story. Yet even as the story unfolds we find knots in some of the threads. There are previously unknown connections. Komaki's father died in the same accident as Kyoko, for instance. And who knew that Kyo knew Kyoko, had a pretty close bond with her in fact? We see parallels in Tohru and Kyo's childhood trauma as stupid adults make stupid assumptions about the abilities of children to understand things said about them. All of these things play out in the background of Kyo and Tohru's stumbling courtship.

It's a reasonable but childish thing to promise that your mother will always be the one you care most about. Tohru is seriously conflicted. She knows that she loves Kyo but does that mean she will lose her closeness with her mother? Yet Tohru knows there's no denying her love for Kyo and so she mourns once again the loss of her mother. She takes the courageous step of telling Kyo only to be crushed by his unthinking response. He in turn doesn't think it's fair to subject her to the life he will have to live. Both Momiji and Yuki (one with gentle, important words and the other with his fists) show Kyo the error of his ways.

One of the things that I was most interested in when reading the series was the curse. I was so surprised when Kureno didn't really know how he had broken it, especially when Rin and Tohru were so desperate to find out how to break it. Momiji was surprised to find himself truly alone and lonely. You could argue that he had always been alone since his family had basically abandoned him but he had always had the members of the Zodiac to lean on. Akito realized it and in her cruel way didn't fail to point it out. Hiro could suddenly hug his little sister but thought that Kisa wouldn't like him anymore. Shigure, having realized that all the Zodiac are alive at the same time, seems to best understand what's happening and assumes that this is the last banquet. However, he doesn't mind being cursed. Each person is surprised at the powerful emotions that sweep through them when finally released and most weep, both in sorrow and for joy. Finally we find out why the cat was ostracized. Tohru was shocked to think that the others, these people that she loved, could accept Kyo's banishment. He was the betrayer and the scapegoat. He was the one that knew that eternity was too long.

And finally we see in print what we already knew in our heads, everyone loved Tohru. They want her to be happy and ultimately are delighted to see her united with the cat. The old views are crumbling and are surprising to some. Kyo, for instance, can't believe it when Kisa gives him her hankie. In the final volume all the threads are untangled and we see each member of the Zodiac taking tentative steps into the world. Ironically Akito, the one who would be god, was the most frail of all, relying heavily on the support of Shigure, who is relieved to finally have her to himself. Of course, the most touching was the eternal love of Tohru and Kyo as evidenced by their closeness even in their old age.

This is essentially a many-layered love story and we loved it all.

Fruits Basket volumes 16, 17 & 18

Okay! Time to get back into the discussion of Fruits Basket. For this discussion, we'll focus on volumes 16, 17, and 18. There are several very pivotal revelations in these volumes, so if you have not read these chapters yet and do not want to be spoiled, please do not read any further until you do. These revelations will be addressed because of their significant role in the development of the story.

In volume 16 we learn more about Tohru's parents. We've had hints about Kyoko's past before, but we get the details in these chapters and not everything is pretty. Katsuya proved to be the influence she needed in her life as her relationship with her parents was strained and she was so isolated. I think their story is so sweet and romantic. It soon turns to heartache, though, when Katsuya falls ill and passes away. Kyoko completely falls apart, and I think the depiction of this in many ways is absolutely believable. Even for a person who is solidly on their feet and doesn't have the kind of baggage that Kyoko is burdened with, to lose the love of your life must be devastating. It's also disturbing, though, at the neglect that Tohru suffers during this time, and this plays a role in the person that Tohru is today.

Some questions about these chapters -

*We've seen examples throughout the story of mothers. One of the most important mother figures is Tohru's mother, so it's appropriate that we see her role as a mother to Tohru. Kyoko felt insecure when she learns she's going to become a mother, but I think most mothers feel very inadequate! We all make mistakes, and hopefully we learn from them and do better next time. What mistakes did Kyoko make? What kind of affect do those have on Tohru? What do you think about her role as a mother to Tohru?

Throughout the chapters in these three volumes, the relationship between Yuki and Machi continues to develop. For much of the first half of the series there appeared to be a romantic love triangle between Tohru, Yuki, and Kyo, but that's changed now. How do you feel about Machi? What do you think of her pigsty apartment? How could Yuki ever fall for such an odd girl?

With Yuki out of the picture (not that Yuki and Kyo ever came to blows over winning Tohru's affection, or even mentioned it for that matter), you'd think it was clear sailing for Kyo. Tohru's feelings for him are obvious, and it's obvious that he cares for her. But something is keeping them apart and it really hurts to see it (this is the kind of angst I love, though, btw! ^^). I love all the small tender things that Kyo does for Tohru. So cute.

Okay, now to the revelations. There is so much revealed in these few chapters, but it sets us up perfectly for final handful of volumes. First major revelation: Kureno's curse has broken. Second major revelation: Akito is a woman. This explains so much - Akito's jealousy (especially her treatment of the female juunishi), why Kureno is unable to return Uo's feelings, and why everyone is so extremely messed up. And, we meet the most messed up person of all - Akito's mother, Ren. With just a few exchanges, we get the full picture of their mother-daughter relationship (which would make an interesting compare/contrast to Tohru's and Kyoko's relationship), and we understand why Akito is so possessive of her juunishi. Ren doesn't believe the bonds are real. Akito is set out to prove that they are. Meanwhile, Shigure is insanely jealous of Kureno's position and uses Ren to spite Akito (such sordid drama, ha ha), but we finally understand a little about Shigure's motives in all of this. Which brings in Rin and her fervent desire to break the curse, which leads to her being used by Ren, being locked up by Akito, and Haru goes black. I was so relieved when Kureno got some backbone and stepped in to rescue Rin.

Questions about the reveals and the bonds of the juunishi -

*First, I'm curious about everyone's reactions when they first read these chapters. Were you surprised? Did you have an idea of what was going on? There were allusions to the curse breaking in earlier chapters, were there allusions to Akito's gender as well?

*Knowing more about Akito, has that changed how you feel about her? Her behavior has been awful, but is it inexcusable?

As always, don't confine yourself to the discussion points above, but add your own thoughts as you read these chapters. Finally, let's plan on discussing the next two volumes (19 and 20) next week, resuming our original schedule. Hopefully a little more regular posting will keep us on track as we finish up the series. There's a lot to discuss, so thanks to everyone who's been participating!

Fruits Basket Continuing Discussion

Hey guys, sorry for the delay. Long day yesterday, so I'm only a day late. Anyway, since it seems like everyone has been reading ahead and the discussions are lagging a bit, perhaps as a result, I've decided, if there are no objections, to push the discussion ahead several volumes at once, and if necessary give people a little time to get through all of them beyond the usual week. I was thinking going through volume 15 this time, and you can discuss individual volumes or the whole shebang at your own pace. I'll give a brief summary of what we'll see, with no spoilers, and then we can bring up discussion starting with 9 and 10 and add on as we go. Also, feel free to update the character listing as we go if anyone has any relevant comments for any of the characters, or wishes to add new ones as we meet them.

So, 9 and 10: Yuki is starting to move out of the protection of Tohru and the little family as he accepts his new responsibilities in the student council and starts to meet the student council members. A lot of challenge, but also great opportunities for growth. We also learn more of friendship as Hana contributes her past to the plot, and Uo dreams of the man she met at the convenience store. Meanwhile, Tohru and Kyo are visiting Shishou, who discusses some distressing news with Kyo's real father. On a trip to the summer home, emotions are high for everyone, between happy summer recreation activities, Akito's presence bringing tension to all, and Yuki being able to voice some things that have been on his mind for a very long time. A lot of mixed emotions, and some more family conflict to deal with. How is the treatment of the cat related to the feelings of the rest of the Juunishi so far, and why do you think they would tolerate such behavior?

11 and 12: We're still at the summer home with the Sohmas, and things are still a strange mixture of tension and relaxation as Akito continues to torment the Juunishi and goads Kyo into a distressing revelation. Meanwhile, we get to meet another member of the zodiac, the Horse. Akito reveals his connection to the Juunishi and the relevance of the old folk tale, while Kyo continues to muse on his newly realized feelings. Then it's back to school, and Yuki continues to struggle on with his new challenges in the student council and the mishmash of personalities. Tohru has learned of the eventual fate of Yuki and Kyo, and is determined to do something about it. Since the majority of the action revolves around the Cat, I'd love to discuss his unique situation and how he might relate to the rest of the Juunishi through the folk tale. So he missed the banquet, how does that make him the outcast, and why does he have his grotesque other form? How do Yuki's feelings for Tohru change, and how do the changes affect him in his interactions with others? And what of the looming parent-teacher conferences?

13, 14, and 15: Tension mounts as Tohru continues to investigate the inner workings of the Sohma family, as well as trying to help her friend and learn more about the mysterious Kureno. Parent-teacher conferences are upon the students too, and Yuki needs to deal with his mother and stand up for himself. Tohru gets to meet the precious Momo, Momiji's little sister, and feels the pain of the curse as the most optimistic of the Sohma clan feels it, being separated from the person he loves most. Rin, meanwhile, is trying to learn more about the curse and how to break it, and she's certain Shigure knows something about it. But her illness impedes her search, and she reluctantly meets Tohru, who of course feels nothing but sympathy for this girl who is in so much pain. Yuki continues to puzzle over the eccentricities of the student council members, and to try to deal with his own past fears. Selfishness is a good topic here...so many people acting on their own interests at the expense of others, from Momiji's father isolating his son from the rest of the family to save his wife to Yuki's mother using her son's place in the zodiac to furnish her own comfort at his expense. Many of the truly selfish in this series are the adults, and the children are the victims of those selfish whims. The class play and casting is a lovely bit of comic relief, with the kids being able to be themselves regardless of their roles, with a heavy peek into Yuki's past, and the emotional abuse he suffered due to Akito. And yet, he found a tiny spark of light, and an early connection with Tohru, that kept him from succumbing completely to the darkness. The play proceeds with some script changes, and everyone lives happily ever after, in their own way.

Hope this isn't too much at once, but proceed at your own pace and add anything you wish as you go along. Let me know if anyone is interested in the next posting...we could finish the series or break it into two more sections as people decide.