Dreamsongs: Volume 1 - Part 2 - Discussion

First and foremost, my apologies for being late on this part. Life got a bit busy, tests especially (so much reading in regards to freedom of speech) and I lost track of time. So here we are! Heh.

The Hero

Here's where things begin to get interesting, I think. Though his stories are, for the most part, unconnected, it would be a good idea to try and remember some of the terms and names used.

That being said, what did you guys think of it? Kagen's fate at the end, was it truly a good thing, to keep him from visiting Earth, or did he deserve to see humanity's homeworld, the world he'd been fighting for? What similarities do you see with present day soldiers serving overseas?

The Exit to San Breta

Personally, I find this story to be...ethereal, almost, I guess. Fitting, then, that it is, in essence, a ghost story. I don't really have any major questions for it, just want to know what were your thoughts?

The Second Kind of Lonliness

Ahh, here we are, one of my favorites. How well did you think Martin did in showing how lonely the man is? How about describing the Cerberus Star Ring? It was a monstrous, insane thing the man did, activating the Star Ring and killing his replacement, ultimately sealing him away from humanity (at least for god knows how long), yet in a way is he really responsible? A single man, left alone for so very long...eats away at the mind.

With Morning Comes Mistfall

Another favorite. This one truly speaks to me, the message within the interesting setting of Wraithworld.

First off though, what did you think of Wraithworld? Could you see yourself coming there, if only to see the Mistfalls and Mistrise? Maybe try and see the mysterious Wraiths?

But the core thing here is whether or not we should investigate everything. Sanders argues that man needs "mystery, and poetry, and romance. I think he needs a few unanswered questions to make him brood and wonder." Do you agree with this way of thinking? Or do you agree with Dubowski, about needing to know the answers?

Next Week: Part 3 - The Light of Distant Stars

Again, my apologies for being late. Will do my best not to let that happen again. So, I'll try to have the next post up the Sunday after Thanksgiving (since I'm sure most will be busy, and this next section is rather large). So next set is part 3, which encompasses the following stories:

• A Song for Lya
• This Tower of Ashes
• And Seven Times Never Kill Man
• The Stone City
• Bitterblooms
• The Way of Cross and Dragon

I hope you enjoy!

Dreamsongs: Volume 1 - Part 1 - Discussion

Few days late, my apologies, but not too late anyway, heh. So, been about two weeks since I posted the first post, time to start up discussion on the first portion of Dreamsongs, Vol. 1.

A Four-Color Fanboy

Though not required, I figure some of you may've read through this portion anyway. Good thinking, in any event. No real questions about it as it is just an autobiographical bit by Martin, but just out of curiosity, what did you think so far? One thing of interest especially, I think, is how he refers to the three stories that follow as his "apprentice work" and to "read on if you dare."

Only Kids Are Afraid of The Dark

The first of the three stories, involving Saagael, the Prince of Demons, Lord of Darkness, etc etc (so many titles) and the hero Doctor Weird.

1. What did you think of the overall story? Did it seem somewhat childish to you, battle between definite good and evil, a superhero, demon, and so on?
2. Even as one of his early works, Martin's ability to set up a scene is evident in this story. Did you find his description of the temple, of the plane where Saagael waited to be overly descriptive, or fitting?

The Fortress

The Fortress, aka Sveaborg, is, if you couldn't tell/didn't know, based on a real location of the same name (though it was once known as Suomenlinna). This is a departure, in my experience, from most of Martin's work. Typically he doesn't go for a sort of historical fiction. An oddity.

1. Why do you think Martin chose Sveaborg to write about? Was he trying, much like the character Carl Bannersson in the Epilog, to be an armchair general of sorts (though to be fair to Bannersson, at least in the story, he was present at Sveaborg so had some ground to stand on in that regard)?
2. Based on your reading of these three stories, do you think that Martin's choice of historical fiction was a good idea?
3. With question # 2 in mind, why do you think Martin chose to not do any historical fiction stories (that I know of, anyway, Dreamsongs vol. 1 & 2 do not, to my recollection, have any other, his A Song of Ice and Fire series is not based on our reality, and the Wildcard series of books based on present day with superheroes and the like)?

And Death His Legacy

Personally, my favorite of the first three. I found it an interesting way to tell a story.

1. Just whose legacy is death in this story? The Prophet or Maximillian de Laurier?
2. Though he wrote it around 1968, in a way this story could easily (and eerily) be seen as taking place today. Whatever your feelings about the current (and immediate future) political layout, do you think this story holds a message? And do you agree with it?
3. And do you agree with what Maximillian chose to do in the end? More to that matter, do you think it was the right thing to do at all?

And I'll end this out with announcing that Part 2, The Filthy Pro, which encompasses The Hero, The Exit To San Breta, The Second Kind Of Loneliness, and With Morning Comes Mistfall, will be up next Friday (if I'm on time, anyway, heh). Enjoy!

Dreamsongs: Volume 1 - Part 1

First, sorry for the delay on making this, life got a bit busy and then my book vanished on me. Finally found it, in the last place I looked, of course: My car.

So! I have it now, heh. And figure its time to start a reading for it. Not sure how many of you are going to join in, so for the first part I figure I'll give it two weeks time. Plenty of time to get a book (if you don't have it at the moment), maybe let stragglers in.

Anyway, part 1. Both volumes of Dreamsongs are helpfully split up into subsections, so we'll just go with that. For the most part, each section follows a theme. It also starts with a small autobiographical bit from the author, George R R Martin.

So, for the first reading, Part 1, A Four-Color Fanboy. This includes the following three stories:

• Only Kids Are Afraid Of The Dark
• The Fortress
• And Death His Legacy

Simple enough stuff at the start, as I recall. I believe some of these are his earliest works (fitting then that they show up at the start of his sorta-autobiography), so they may be a bit rough around the edges, but still a good read, I think. I'll make the discussion post for this on October 26th.

Happy reading!

Next Book to Read?

Hey guys, been a little while since Redwall was finished, was thinking maybe I could present, I guess, a book for those who are interested to read?

I want to add, there's no rush at all for this. Its August still, for some of us school is starting (whether that means through jobs or our children), for others its vacations, and so on. I myself have my Fall semester starting up in two weeks, so I'll be getting busy myself. So, basically, just want to test the water about this, wouldn't be putting it up for a while still.

Anyway, after giving it a lot of thought, I was thinking the next book could be Dreamsongs, Vol. 1, by George R. R. Martin. It is, admittedly, a rather large book (and there is a second, as the presence of "volume 1" makes clear), but it has some advantages, despite its size.

Specifically, Dreamsongs (both vol. 1 and 2) is a collection of short stories by the author GRRM. The books are tied together in a vaguely autobiographical way, with each section of short stories bordered by small bits about his life, from childhood to where he is now. His short stories range from science fiction to fantasy to a sorta horror to superheroes and the like.

I figured you guys may like it, both for its variety, and also the fact that its all short stories. It'd make it a lot easier to read through, just spend a bit of time, read one or two, and so on.

I'm in no rush about this, like I said, I know people can be busy around this time. Lord knows I'll be shortly. Was thinking of starting it up sometime mid-September if anyone's interested. Let me know!

Redwall-Section 3

The intensity heightens, Matthias makes a dangerous gamble, and meanwhile Cluny resorts to underhanded means to get a foothold in the Abbey...the final section of the book is action-packed and has a bit more graphic description of battle scenes than most would expect of a book often marketed to children. Thoughts on the battle descriptions and the give and take of the Abbey-dwellers and the vermin? For being peaceful creatures, the Redwallers come up with some rather frightening schemes for stopping Cluny...from a giant crossbow to boiling water. Thoughts on the fact that Jacques isn't afraid to let characters die, such as old Methuselah and the Abbot? Thoughts on the book in general?

Redwall-Section 2

By the time you've finished this section, you've been introduced to the majority of the main cast. How did everyone like the various creatures and their mannerisms and especially their dialects? Hearing this on audio, especially the mole speech, is really quite hilarious. Plot-wise, thoughts on the search for the sword, and the lengths Matthias goes to, as well as the growth as a character, in his quest? Thoughts on Cluny, his plotting and scheming, and his cast of vermin? Things are getting heated as the battle for Redwall continues.

Redwall-Section 1

I apologize for the late post, but I'll admit to having slacked a bit this week and not finishing reading until today. Any first impressions of the world of Redwall, the magnificent Abbey, and the order of mice? So many different types of animals are represented, and in later books almost all of them get their time in the spotlight, but I'll admit right now that my favorites have always been the hares, the otters, and the badgers. The mice are great, but these other species and their mannerisms and ways of life have always intrigued me. Thoughts on the writing style, description, or the poetry and music? What about the story, our young hero Matthias, Abbot Mortimer, and Cluny the Scourge? I know not everyone has finished reading, so feel free to post as you get there.

Redwall Reading Schedule

Here we go with Redwall. As I said, it's an easy enough read, and the book itself is divided into three sections, so we can just do one section at a time. To give everyone a chance to get the book and get the first section read, I'm going to suggest that we discuss the first section next Friday, July 1st, the second section on the 8th, and the third on the 15th, if that works for everyone. Not that there's a huge amount to discuss, but pay attention to the detail of the descriptions. Jacques wrote the first book to read to children at a school for the blind he worked at as a janitor, so he tried to paint as vivid a picture of the world as he could for them. Also might be fun to talk about the Redwall occupants as a religious(?) order and how they serve the community of Mossflower Woods. The songs and poetry are always enjoyable, as is the story of Martin the Warrior. Also, if anyone is interested, there's a beautiful unabridged recording of Redwall and many others of Jacques's books available on iTunes, read by him and featuring a full cast including music. Wonderful way to read the book, if it grabs you.

Our Next Reading Selection

Hey guys, we've had a little break since finishing Uglies, and I think it's time to choose our next book. I know it's summer, people are busy and may be traveling, but I don't want to let the blog fade again. If anyone wishes to step up with their selection now, go for it, and if not I'm willing to do Redwall, which is not at all heavy, is a fun and easy ready, and probably won't spark a lot of heavy discussion, it's mostly for enjoyment. I figure with the season folks might like that kind of read rather than something that requires a lot of time and effort. Let me know your thoughts and we can get started.

Uglies Part 3: Into The Fire

In this final section, we learn a little more about the demise of the Rusty civilization - that all the oil became infected by a bacterium and combusted upon contact with oxygen. There are at least two messages we can take from this exchange between Tally and David as they discussed the downfall of the Rusties. The first is that every civilization has its weakness, and David suggests that perhaps even something intangible as an idea can be the catalyst for a society's downfall. The other message is environmental.

Just like the spores that infected the oil, an idea can spread throughout a population. What idea do you think David is referring to? What do you think is the weakness of Tally's society? Is there only one weakness? What would you do if you were in Tally's or David's position?

The Rusty civilization - our civilization - relies primarily on fossil fuels for energy. Do you agree with David that this reliance could be our downfall? Do any of the environmental messages in the book resonate with you?

Unfortunately, by the time Tally and David manage to rescue what few they can that were taken from the Smoke, Shay has had the pretty operation against her will. What is your reaction to the changes in Shay? What do you think of Tally's choice to turn pretty? Special Circumstances knows that there is a resistance brewing. Why don't you think the New Smokies have been flushed out yet?

It may be disappointing that there isn't concrete resolution to the story by the end of the novel. Uglies is part of a quartet, but I chose it because I think it can stand alone. The issues it raises about physical beauty, self-reliance, and the functions of society, provide opportunities for discussion and debate. I hope you've enjoyed the novel, and if you are curious to read the rest of the series, it's worth checking out. At times, the story can get formulaic, but it's still a fun, worthwhile read. Thank you for the insightful discussions!

Uglies Part 2: The Smoke

As Tally nears the end of her journey to The Smoke, she encounters a beautiful flower, which she later learns is called phragmipedium panthera. It's pretty obvious that this flower is one of Westerfeld's not-so-subtle analogies to pretties. We learn that while these flowers are beautiful, they are choking off the life all around them, creating a monoculture that will ultimately result in their demise. It might be interesting to note that both terms used to name the flower in this story come from actual genera - phragmipedium is indeed a genus of the orchid family, and panthera is a genus of the family Felidae, which includes the tiger, lion, jaguar, and leopard species. We can push the analogy further when we consider that one of the adjectives used to describe Dr. Cable was that of a predator. Any thoughts on the symbolism behind the flower or the methods used to contain it?

Once at The Smoke we are introduced to a community that contrasts sharply with that of pretty society. Do you think that one society has it right and the other has it wrong? Is it as simple as black and white? What is your impression of The Smoke?

Tally's motivation to come to The Smoke was the opposite of everyone else who has ever made that journey - she came in order to become pretty. Is her change of heart believable as she learns more about this new society and the truths behind her own?

As always, these are questions to initiate discussion. Comment where you want the discussion to go. For next week, read Part 3: Into The Fire.

Uglies Part 1: Turning Pretty

What does it mean to be pretty? Why is it even important? I'm sure we're all familiar with the adage that beauty is only skin deep, yet our society continues its manic self-absorption with physical appearance (one needs only look at the magazines displayed at the grocery check-out to see examples of this obsession). In his novel, Uglies, Westerfeld creates a society where everyone is pretty, or at least, where everyone eventually can become pretty. Why do you think physical beauty is so important in Tally's society? Do people want to be pretty in Tally's society for the same reasons that we want to be pretty in our society? What message do you think Westerfeld is trying to give with this premise of "turning pretty" in his novel?

What do you think of the contempt that Tally's people have for the Rusties? As Tally was taught in school: "The Rusty Ruins were the remains of an old city, a hulking reminder of back when there'd been way too many people, and everyone was incredibly stupid. And ugly." Has Tally's society been able to eradicate these faults of the Rusties from their own society? What does Tally learn from her night visit with Shay to the Rusty Ruins?

As always, these are just questions to help initiate discussion about this first section of the reading. I'm more interested in hearing what you want to talk about, so let the discussion commence!

[Read Part II: The Smoke for next week's discussion beginning Friday, May 20th.]

Uglies Reading Schedule

Uglies is written in three parts, so our reading schedule will be broken up into three parts.

Part I - Begin discussion May 13
Part II - Begin discussion May 20
Part III - Begin discussion May 27

Start reading Part I Turning Pretty now. I'll have questions posted to help initiate the discussion next week, so for now, just enjoy the story and think about what you want to discuss next week. I am curious to see if anyone finds themselves imitating some of the language patterns from this novel. If you don't know what I'm talking about, read a little bit and you will soon enough. Have fun!

Uglies!!!

Okay, I'm going to take the initiative on this, and the next book we're reading is Uglies by Scott Westerfeld. It's the first - and best - novel in a series of four books about a dystopian society that is a little too obsessed over physical beauty.

I first read this book for a book group several years ago and instantly fell in love with it. It's a fairly quick and easy read, so don't let the 425 pages (in my copy anyway) intimidate you. We'll breeze through this fairly quickly, I imagine (once I figure out the reading schedule...).

So, please comment if you're joining in on this one and also note whether you've read Uglies before. I think we'll give it a week for people to get their copies before I post a schedule. So, actual discussion won't start for another couple of weeks.

Now, go get your copy! Yay!

The Giver: Part 2

I apologize for my lack of post yesterday, I was at a family event and didn't get home or to my computer until after midnight, so I figured I'd give it until tonight when I was actually coherent to post my thoughts on part 2.

I'll start with some discussion questions to get us going, and we can move along from there with impressions of story, characters, or thoughts on the ending. Now that Jonas has realized how much the community is really lacking in feelings and experience, what is your impression of their lives? What about their casual attitude towards things like release, killing and disposing of people who in any way disrupt the order of their world? What about the memories the Giver gives to Jonas, the way he helps him to understand things like color (just imagine trying to describe color to someone who has never seen it, I wouldn't even know where to start) and various emotions. What did you think of the description of the word "love" as so generalized it has become obsolete? Finally, what about the ending? Did it live up to the rest of the book, or did it feel a little anticlimactic? Was Jonas dreaming, or dying, or did he actually stumble upon a sled waiting for him in a memory that was actually his own?

The Giver: Part 1

Let's go ahead and open up discussion for the first reading section of The Giver. I know most of us have read it before, but what were your initial impressions of the lives these people lead and the community to which they belong? What about their perceptions of things like emotions at this stage in the reading? More on that in the next section, but initially, what was the impression? How about the idea of children and parents not being related by blood, someone else evaluating you and choosing your future for you, including spouse, your job, where you live, and how you think? Basically, to begin with, I'd like to discuss all the aspects of this society that we've noticed and how well (or poorly) they function, and how they affect these people's lives. Then we can open it up from there and go on to Jonas and how his Ceremony of Twelve changes things for him within the society.

The Giver Reading Schedule

I've looked over my copy of The Giver, and as short as it is (180 pages in my edition)I think we can finish it in two weeks easily, and cut it very nearly in half, which actually works out well as far as the plot of the book. If everyone is willing to read this many pages, I'm thinking we could go through chapter 9, which I'm seeing as 70 pages in my copy. I can do this by the end of the week, but I don't know if that suits everyone else's schedule. How about we try to get it read by Sunday night, February 20th, and the second half by the following Sunday, the 27th? Let me know if this works, if we need to tweak it, and hope you guys enjoy! Some food for thought on the first section: pay attention to adjectives, or the lack thereof, and also to the rigidity of the society and the interactions of the people. How comfortable would you be living in such a society, and to what extent do you consider the lives these people lead fulfilling, or even humane?

New Year, New Reading List

Hey guys, so we kind of lost our motivation after Fruits Basket last year and never chose any new books, but for the new year we're thinking we'd like to scrap our old reading list, start from scratch, and see if we can get this going again. Not to say that things on our list are bad, but we figure it's just a good idea to start fresh. So we'll clear the list, open it up for new (or re-) submissions, and see if we can get started. As before, we can opt in or out of each reading selection, no pressure. And if anyone has any other suggestions for improving this group, please let us know. We'd like to start reading in the next couple weeks, so please think about your book, post it, and we can decide who will go first. Thanks guys!

Fruits Basket volumes 19-23

At first I was surprised that I was going to be discussing FIVE volumes but it actually takes five volumes to tell the end. It needs to take that long because these people are becoming human. We didn't really think of them as monsters but Shigure points out that they really are. How long does it take a monster to become human? Takaya lingers on the details as she unravels the threads of the story. Yet even as the story unfolds we find knots in some of the threads. There are previously unknown connections. Komaki's father died in the same accident as Kyoko, for instance. And who knew that Kyo knew Kyoko, had a pretty close bond with her in fact? We see parallels in Tohru and Kyo's childhood trauma as stupid adults make stupid assumptions about the abilities of children to understand things said about them. All of these things play out in the background of Kyo and Tohru's stumbling courtship.

It's a reasonable but childish thing to promise that your mother will always be the one you care most about. Tohru is seriously conflicted. She knows that she loves Kyo but does that mean she will lose her closeness with her mother? Yet Tohru knows there's no denying her love for Kyo and so she mourns once again the loss of her mother. She takes the courageous step of telling Kyo only to be crushed by his unthinking response. He in turn doesn't think it's fair to subject her to the life he will have to live. Both Momiji and Yuki (one with gentle, important words and the other with his fists) show Kyo the error of his ways.

One of the things that I was most interested in when reading the series was the curse. I was so surprised when Kureno didn't really know how he had broken it, especially when Rin and Tohru were so desperate to find out how to break it. Momiji was surprised to find himself truly alone and lonely. You could argue that he had always been alone since his family had basically abandoned him but he had always had the members of the Zodiac to lean on. Akito realized it and in her cruel way didn't fail to point it out. Hiro could suddenly hug his little sister but thought that Kisa wouldn't like him anymore. Shigure, having realized that all the Zodiac are alive at the same time, seems to best understand what's happening and assumes that this is the last banquet. However, he doesn't mind being cursed. Each person is surprised at the powerful emotions that sweep through them when finally released and most weep, both in sorrow and for joy. Finally we find out why the cat was ostracized. Tohru was shocked to think that the others, these people that she loved, could accept Kyo's banishment. He was the betrayer and the scapegoat. He was the one that knew that eternity was too long.

And finally we see in print what we already knew in our heads, everyone loved Tohru. They want her to be happy and ultimately are delighted to see her united with the cat. The old views are crumbling and are surprising to some. Kyo, for instance, can't believe it when Kisa gives him her hankie. In the final volume all the threads are untangled and we see each member of the Zodiac taking tentative steps into the world. Ironically Akito, the one who would be god, was the most frail of all, relying heavily on the support of Shigure, who is relieved to finally have her to himself. Of course, the most touching was the eternal love of Tohru and Kyo as evidenced by their closeness even in their old age.

This is essentially a many-layered love story and we loved it all.

Fruits Basket volumes 16, 17 & 18

Okay! Time to get back into the discussion of Fruits Basket. For this discussion, we'll focus on volumes 16, 17, and 18. There are several very pivotal revelations in these volumes, so if you have not read these chapters yet and do not want to be spoiled, please do not read any further until you do. These revelations will be addressed because of their significant role in the development of the story.

In volume 16 we learn more about Tohru's parents. We've had hints about Kyoko's past before, but we get the details in these chapters and not everything is pretty. Katsuya proved to be the influence she needed in her life as her relationship with her parents was strained and she was so isolated. I think their story is so sweet and romantic. It soon turns to heartache, though, when Katsuya falls ill and passes away. Kyoko completely falls apart, and I think the depiction of this in many ways is absolutely believable. Even for a person who is solidly on their feet and doesn't have the kind of baggage that Kyoko is burdened with, to lose the love of your life must be devastating. It's also disturbing, though, at the neglect that Tohru suffers during this time, and this plays a role in the person that Tohru is today.

Some questions about these chapters -

*We've seen examples throughout the story of mothers. One of the most important mother figures is Tohru's mother, so it's appropriate that we see her role as a mother to Tohru. Kyoko felt insecure when she learns she's going to become a mother, but I think most mothers feel very inadequate! We all make mistakes, and hopefully we learn from them and do better next time. What mistakes did Kyoko make? What kind of affect do those have on Tohru? What do you think about her role as a mother to Tohru?

Throughout the chapters in these three volumes, the relationship between Yuki and Machi continues to develop. For much of the first half of the series there appeared to be a romantic love triangle between Tohru, Yuki, and Kyo, but that's changed now. How do you feel about Machi? What do you think of her pigsty apartment? How could Yuki ever fall for such an odd girl?

With Yuki out of the picture (not that Yuki and Kyo ever came to blows over winning Tohru's affection, or even mentioned it for that matter), you'd think it was clear sailing for Kyo. Tohru's feelings for him are obvious, and it's obvious that he cares for her. But something is keeping them apart and it really hurts to see it (this is the kind of angst I love, though, btw! ^^). I love all the small tender things that Kyo does for Tohru. So cute.

Okay, now to the revelations. There is so much revealed in these few chapters, but it sets us up perfectly for final handful of volumes. First major revelation: Kureno's curse has broken. Second major revelation: Akito is a woman. This explains so much - Akito's jealousy (especially her treatment of the female juunishi), why Kureno is unable to return Uo's feelings, and why everyone is so extremely messed up. And, we meet the most messed up person of all - Akito's mother, Ren. With just a few exchanges, we get the full picture of their mother-daughter relationship (which would make an interesting compare/contrast to Tohru's and Kyoko's relationship), and we understand why Akito is so possessive of her juunishi. Ren doesn't believe the bonds are real. Akito is set out to prove that they are. Meanwhile, Shigure is insanely jealous of Kureno's position and uses Ren to spite Akito (such sordid drama, ha ha), but we finally understand a little about Shigure's motives in all of this. Which brings in Rin and her fervent desire to break the curse, which leads to her being used by Ren, being locked up by Akito, and Haru goes black. I was so relieved when Kureno got some backbone and stepped in to rescue Rin.

Questions about the reveals and the bonds of the juunishi -

*First, I'm curious about everyone's reactions when they first read these chapters. Were you surprised? Did you have an idea of what was going on? There were allusions to the curse breaking in earlier chapters, were there allusions to Akito's gender as well?

*Knowing more about Akito, has that changed how you feel about her? Her behavior has been awful, but is it inexcusable?

As always, don't confine yourself to the discussion points above, but add your own thoughts as you read these chapters. Finally, let's plan on discussing the next two volumes (19 and 20) next week, resuming our original schedule. Hopefully a little more regular posting will keep us on track as we finish up the series. There's a lot to discuss, so thanks to everyone who's been participating!