Saturday, February 21, 2009

Dreams from My Father - Part 1: Origins Discussion

Discussion is open for Part 1: Origins! (my apologies for getting this up later than I said I would - it's been an unexpectedly busy day and two little boys kept interrupting me this afternoon while I tried to compose my thoughts; I'll do better next time as in getting the post drafted before the discussion opens so that things like this won't happen again!)

I hope you've enjoyed reading Dreams from My Father as much as I have. I went into this reading having a little background from listening to Diane Rehm's Reader's Review on NPR (you can listen to that discussion by following the link), which made me curious to read the book myself.

In order to facilitate the discussion, listed below are some thought questions and topics to get us started (don't feel like you need to answer any or all of these - this is merely to get us thinking). I'm especially interested in everyone's impression with the book and their initial thoughts. Let's get the discussion started and we can let it go from there.

* Obama's father was absent from much of his childhood. What kind of impact did this have on him? How did he cope?

* How did Obama's mother's remarriage affect his image of himself and his image of his father? What kind of role did Lolo play as a father to Obama?

* How did Obama's time in Indonesia affect his world view?

* What was it like growing up in Hawaii for Obama? How did race play a part in his childhood and adolesence?

* What kind of influence did Obama's mother have in his life? What kind of influence did his grandmother have?

Discussion for Part 2: Chicago will open in 2 weeks - March 7.

18 comments:

Ruth said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Istari the Angel said...

Initial impression of the book...I enjoyed the writing style, and it dealt realistically with some very difficult subject matter, especially racism and the absenteeism of his father. I also found the reading a little difficult, and rather heavy, but I've enjoyed it thus far.

He's had a very interesting group of male role models, from his absent father and his mother's stories of her to his grandfather to Lolo, who showed him a harsher, stranger reality than a little boy from America would typically be aware of in India.

More thoughts later, but for right now I have to get stuff together for tomorrow since I just got home from Colorado Springs.

Ruth said...

Okay, let’s try this again.

I’m actually going to address one of the touchiest aspects of this section: racism. At first, reading about Barack’s experiences with it, his analyzing how his mother and grandparents dealt with it, and addressing his own feelings and place in the world really bothered me. I was uncomfortable with it. Probably because much of my life has been spent in the South, where racism is still an issue in many ways, I feel particularly sensitive about it, and often confused. However, these thoughts and some of the stories he tells brought up old memories and questions and got me thinking about my experiences. This is going to wax rather personal, which I hope no one minds. I think it will be good for me to share these thoughts, and I hope to hear what other people think.

A little bit of background: My parents both grew up in Utah, which I’m sure at the time had very little ethnic variety. They both went on missions, one to Japan, one to France, attended school at a Utah university, then moved to Iowa after they got married. As far as I know, they may never have even seen a black person for the first 25 years of their lives. I’ve never asked. I also know that my paternal grandfather had some pretty strong prejudices towards any race other than his own. I think it would be hard for my father not to pick up on that, but if he’s ever struggled with similar opinions, I’ve never known it. I can’t recall ever hearing my father say anything negative about any ethnic group, which makes me really proud of him now that I know better what my grandfather was like.

My family moved to a suburb of Chicago when I started first grade, and this is where my memories of race start. I remember trying to be included in a game of tag with the popular kids when I suddenly came to the realization that they didn’t care a flip that I was trying to play with them. I wandered over to another part of the playground, where I met a black girl standing all alone. She was probably one of the only black kids in the school. We became best friends. She was smart, kind of nerdy looking, and came from a middle-class family. I never thought about the color of her skin. One evening I spent the night at her house, along with some of her cousins. When they met me, they were surprised that I was white and told me so. I was surprised that they were surprised. Later that night they basically told me I was a cool white girl. I was like, “Thanks.” Until I read this book, I’ve never wondered how my parents felt about my friendship with Katia. I like to think they were pleased with me, if maybe a little nervous. Honestly though, I don’t think I want to know for sure. Some of the stories and thoughts that Barack shares seem, in my mind, to be similar to this experience.

When I was ten we moved to South Carolina, and despite it being deep South, I rarely saw racism there. In middle school there was a young man, I think he was half black, half white, that teased me on the bus. I hated him. I would lie awake and dream of beating him up. Then in our Freshman year of high school he shot and killed his mom and her boyfriend. So much media trouble was made about his trial being biased because he was black. I’d told me dad that this young man was the one who teased me mercilessly. One night he came home from work and had been listening to the news. He pulled me aside and remarked that in the 3 years of teasing, I’d never mentioned this young man was black. I got the impression at the time that he was happy about that. I’m glad he was glad, but to me, it wasn’t an issue.

I only went to that high school my Freshman year. It was probably half white, half black. Fights broke out probably every day among both ethnicities, maybe even between the two races, but I don’t remember that very much. I do remember being nervous if I happened to be alone walking down the halls where a lot of black kids were loitering during lunch. But nothing ever happened to me or was even said to me. We moved across town and my new school was very much majority white. The only signs of racism I ever saw were written on the bathroom walls. One other thing that happened while I was in high school was a heated debate concerning flying the confederate flag over the state capitol. Blacks and others (like myself), felt that it symbolized racism and slavery and should not be flown. Old families of the south felt that it symbolized their heritage. It was a very big deal.

Now I live in Georgia, where Atlanta is considered to be the black capital of the US. We moved here after graduation from college, and this is the first place I have felt racial tension. I hate it. All growing up I guess I liked to think that, for the most part, it wasn’t an issue anymore. The county that we moved into is majority black, followed by Hispanic, then white. It was only a few years ago that it was majority “good ole boys.” Here’s what I heard happened: When Atlanta was building its venues for the ’96 Olympics, it tore down a lot of lower income housing, which happened to house many black families. Those people had to go somewhere, so many of them moved to this county, which is just south of Atlanta. As the “good ole boys” saw this happening, a southern phenomenon called “white flight” started to happen. All the established white families sold their homes and moved away. All this happened 15 years ago. It still happens. Now, this particular county has a lot of problems, and it’s hard not to wonder how much race is a factor in that. The major problem was that the whole county’s school system lost its accreditation. A family in our church sent their sons to Idaho to live with their grandparents and go to school there. When we moved into our apartment complex, we were practically the only whites there. I’d never been in the minority (except when I lived in Hong Kong, but that was different), and it was a very uncomfortable feeling. It opened my eyes to an inkling of how others feel when they are in the minority. Of course I can never get a full idea. My ancestors were never slaves or had to struggle for equality the way blacks do. I got a job as a nature guide, guiding 3rd graders from local schools on a nature walk. So many classes had one or two white kids, and they were usually loners. It was a total flip to how I’d seen the world.

After my initial shock, I’ve tried hard to be blind to it all. Then I read this book, and the struggles of Barack and his friends, and now I have to try hard not to wonder if the black person I’m trying to be friendly to at the grocery store thinks I’m being fake or insincere. And if people don’t return my smiles, I remind myself that there are unfriendly people of all colors. I’ve felt that some people have a chip on their shoulder. I saw it as a substitute teacher, but having read about Barack’s chip on the shoulder makes it more real.

So yeah, reading about Barack’s struggles with his racial identity tore open my memories and thoughts on this matter. This is why it made me so uncomfortable. And yet, it was very good for me to read about it and see things from his perspective and those of his friends. Blind as I try to be towards skin color, I have no idea how it feels not to be white, and Barack shared some of that. It was eye-opening to me. I somewhat confused on why or how he developed these feelings in the first place other than his isolation in school. But that eventually changed and got better and yet he let anger eat away at him. I’m not really sure what happened to dampen his angst, but inside I breathed a deep sigh of relief when he let it go. It’s like the knots unraveled in me too. He’s done a good job of communicating his feelings. So does anybody know exactly what happened that changed him?

Lynnette said...

Ruth,
Thanks for sharing all your personal experiences, I think your comments are great. I think we can all agree that reading this was at times uncomfortable; I think racism is inherently a difficult subject since it points to the worst of human nature.

I haven't had a whole lot of personal experience with racism. I grew up in Utah where there is little in the way of racial diversity. When I was 21 I moved to Philadelphia and I lived there for four years. Most of the racism that touched my life was that of blacks calling my husband a "cracker" or other derogatory names as he walked to school. I also remember several times sitting in the county assistance office waiting room (we were poor grad students on medicaid and food stamps) and being the only white person. At first I felt a bit uncomfortable but never threatened. But as time passed and I kept going back for appoitments, it stopped bothering me so obviously the feeling uncomfortable was just my issue with the unknown. But we had many friends of all different races and cultural backgrounds, so for the most part we avoided personal experiences of racism.

But on the flip side, I also witnessed what might be called institutional racism. The predominantly African-American or Hispanic neighborhoods were much worse than predominantly white neighborhoods. Crime is much higher for these racial minorites, especially violent crime. Schools in these communities were TERRIBLE. Hospitals and other community institutions were sub par as well. Drugs and gangs are everywhere. Of course this is directly related so socio-economic status... but you can't help but notice that those with low socio-economic status is directly related to race. I guess what is difficult for me to understand is exactly how race and socio-economic status are related. It seems so complicated and overwhelming.

My husband used to get so frustrated - "why don't they just move?" "why don't they get out of there?" But what he had a hard time understanding is that they didn't (and couldn't) look at the world the way he did, it wasn't as simple as he thought it should be. In fact as I read about Obama's feelings in high school and college, the feelings of anger, frustration, hopelessness and powerlessness, I found myself starting to despair with him. I started to better understand why so many racial minorities feel the way they do, and it makes total sense that there is more crime, drugs, violence, gangs, etc... it's a way to cope.

I was so impressed, though, that near then end of this section he began to realize, seemingly of his own accord, that it didn't have to be that way. He realized that no matter what status he had in life there were some things that applied to men of every status, like personal responsibility, integrity, honesty, etc. But I don't think most people in his situation would have been able to come to this realization, which is part of the reason why so many still harbor so much anger and hopelessness in regards to race.

I think this gets at your final question Ruth. What was it that changed him? I think he's unique. I think a lot of it has to do with his own personal character - I think he was born with personality characteristics that made it easier for him to recognize and change. That's not to say that there are others who couldn't do the same, but I do think changing his whole perspective came a little more naturally than it would to most people. Of course I also think it had a lot to do with his upbringing; it was so unique in that he was raised middle-class, from a white family, but he also had experiences like his time spent in Indonesia that gave him a very unique perspective. I also think some of it must have come from his mother. In the book she is portrayed as a very strong, independent woman, but also a woman who is sympathetic and trying so hard to understand, to see the world the way others do. She seems very optimistic despite the fact that there seems to be a lot of injustice and sadness in her life (at least from my perspective). I think that attitude must have had some effect on him.

Sorry my comments are so long, and I hope they make some sense! I've enjoyed the book so far - the writing style is a bit disjointed at times but I think in the end it's better that way rather than him just stating the facts... that would be boring.

Kate said...

I am rewriting a comment I wrote earlier today. I just reread what I wrote and it sounded like I was on a soapbox with my preaching! The truth of the matter is that I really have no experience with race. Sure, I married a Japanese-American. Yes, I’ve had friends from all sorts of backgrounds. But by and large, my experience has been very limited.

It’s really been during this past election year that race has really been brought to the forefront of my mind. I mentioned in my deleted comment about an article I read about “white privilege.” (I was helping a friend type out work and this was one of the articles I was given to type out for a class – I didn’t seek this article out on my own, although the timing was quite coincidental since I had been musing about race and prejudice for the past few weeks beforehand in regard to Obama’s bid to the White House.) The article itself talks about how white people enjoy a lot of privileges on account of being white, and a lot of “successes” that white people enjoy based on “merit” are really due on account of the color of their skin. The author said that this approach is inherent in our society and only over time will we hopefully be able to eradicate this “privilege” of race. The reason I bring this up, is I think that the fact that I’ve never had to deal with the issues of race is due to this “white privilege”. I have taken so many of the things that I enjoy in society for granted. I’ve never realized this, and I’m a little ashamed to have been so naïve to the struggles of others around me.

I am learning, though. This past year, I have had the chance to work with a youth group of young women. Half of the girls are Navajo, and half of them are white. I was disappointed to see these girls break into their own racial groups and hardly ever intermingle with each other even though the activities were designed to bring everyone together. I was disappointed when I heard racist comments, and I think that some of the girls really had no idea how offensive they were (thankfully - or I would have boxed their ears :P). This was an interesting experience, and it made me think about my own interactions with both with the youth group, but also with the variety of people I’ve met since moving to this area (where I live now is much more diverse than where I grew up and went to school).

The other point that I’ve had about race, and particular prejudice to race, is its relation to socio-economic standing. Usually the poorer racial groups in our nation are the minorities, and as we know, poverty leads to lower education, lower income, and higher crime rates. Sometimes (maybe even oftentimes) these characteristics of economic status are applied broadly to a race or class of people. Applying a label so broadly, to me, is a form of racism with its stereotyping. But how do we break the cycle that these people are in? Reading through Lynnette’s comments above, I think I have been on a similar mindset to her husband’s – why don’t those who suffer from poverty and crime or live in that environment just move, take action, change their lives? This is, of course, where my ignorance and naïveté come in: I don’t understand how they look at the world, and I assumed that they would see things the way I see them. If there were a quick fix for each of these individuals, I am sure it would have been taken care of by now. This book that we’re reading has been so enlightening to me, helping me see through another’s perspective.

Istari the Angel said...

I'm enjoying this discussion of racism, and also pleased that it has led to us sharing some of our own experiences and how we see them differently after reading about Obama's experience. I grew up (and still live, for the moment) in a town that was majorly Hispanic, in northern New Mexico. My family background is Hispanic, and I grew up somewhat bilingual. I can still remember, and even sometimes still hear my grandparents and parents making disparaging comments about the white people who have come here over the years. I never participated in that myself, but I do remember feeling very aware of some privileges that had to do with race as I progressed through school, as well as some problems. I grew up hearing my first name pronounced in Spanish, and that's what my whole family has always called me, but I hated introducing myself, because so many of the kids in my class, those from non-Spanish-speaking homes (not necessarily all white kids, since enough of the Hispanic kids didn't speak as much Spanish) could never pronounce it correctly, and I didn't learn to answer to it in English until around middle school, when I had multiple teachers and it just became easier. But certain teachers, those who were of Hispanic background and knew our parents and grandparents were often much more partial to the Hispanic kids, and I remember us also being particularly cruel to substitute teachers who could not speak Spanish. Even now, given the levels of family and generational connections, you can still get a better job in this town if you have a Spanish last name, even if you can't speak a word of it, which is kind of sad.

Sometimes I remember feeling that Obama felt caught between two cultures, and I also became much more aware of that when I left home and went to college, separate from the cultural norms and the people who spoke the way I did. I remember a roommate teasing me for my accent, not cruelly, but as a comment, because it was so much more apparent when I spoke to my grandparents on the phone, and I also remember realizing, somewhat shamefully, that I didn't know the words to a recitation at Mass, because though I'd gone since childhood, that particular recitation had only ever been done in Spanish. Even now I have difficulty balancing between the two facets of culture that I've been exposed to. I lost a great deal of my Spanish language skills, though I can still understand a lot, and though I love things like Mass in Spanish still, I find myself preferring it in English the way I got used to it in school. When you belong to multiple races or cultures, it's a hard balancing act to honor them both, and you feel like a traitor if you come to realize you prefer one over the other.

On to another comment, the one about economic status, which in my case extended to something a bit more touchy. Many people who don't know better assume that if you speak Spanish in New Mexico you have to be a Mexican immigrant or illegal, and therefore poor and ignorant. What many don't realize is that the area was settled by Spaniards, missionaries and conquistadors long before the "Mexican" race was clearly defined. Another common misconception I've found people expect is that if you're "Mexican" you have darker skin and dark hair, which many Mexican people do have because they come of the mestizo race, a combination of the European Spaniards and the natives of what is now Mexico as they passed through. People don't believe me when I say I'm of Spanish descent, because I'm fair skinned and my hair is reddish brown, and my father and grandmother are both redheads. The fact is that our family came almost directly from Spain. The ignorance that comes of not knowing the history of a particular people is always frustrating because of the misconceptions that come with it, and being caught in between, trying to please both sides by being the perfect example of that particular race or culture is so difficult. Just to avoid the pointing fingers and staring eyes of peers, children will leave their culture behind for the "popular" behaviors and customs of the majority of their peers, regardless of who that majority is. I have a cousin whose father is white, and therefore he has an Anglo last name. When he moved here to live with my grandmother, he begged to be allowed to change his last name to hers, just for the sake of fitting in.

Sorry if it seems like I'm ranting, but the memories that writing this brought up kept building, and I enjoyed sharing them in this respect.

Kate said...

Reading your comments, Angela, made me think of my father-in-law. One of Brian's law professors asked Brian to prepare a presentation about Brian's grandparent's experience during WWII, so when we visited his family in southern CA over a school break, we sat down with his grandmother and asked her specifically about her experience since while Brian knew many of the details, he wanted her perspective. She has never wanted to talk about it much, but Brian was able to get her to open up.

Brian's grandparents were only given a few days to pack up all their belongings before they were to be transported to a confinement camp. Brian asked his grandmother how she felt about that, and she replied that they were very scared. Many of their friends' businesses had had vandalism and they were afraid to go out anywhere. Brian's grandfather owned a gardening business. When Pearl Harbor was hit, Brian's grandfather was working on a garden for a white man who came out of the house and told him to leave the property and never come back. Brian's grandmother had two small children at this time, and being a mother myself of two little boys, I can only imagine how scared she must have felt and the uncertainty they were facing.

Life in the confinement camps was less than ideal. Crowded quarters with dirt floors and harsh temperature extremes were just the beginning. Brian's grandparents eventually wound up in Tule Lake, a notorious confinement camp for the "trouble makers". Brian's grandfather had been asked two loyalty questions. He was asked if he would deny all fealty to the Japanese emperor. The question was asked in English and he did not fully understand it. He thought he was being asked to deny his Japanese heritage, which he was not about to do. The other question that he answered no on was whether he would serve in the armed forces.

Life in Tule Lake was even worse than their previous locations. Medical care was so inadequate that my father-in-law was delivered by a podiatrist because there was no obstetrician. That would scare me to death as a mother about to give birth! And this was in the United States of America that this occurred.

After the camps, Brian's grandparents were issued a trailer by the government for their living space. The reason why Brian was asked to prepare this presentation was to discuss the legalities of the actions that the government took, the long and short of which was that there never was a problem of a potential uprising of the Japanese people. Brian's grandparents received a sum of money from the government for reparations several years later.

The climate after the war was really rough for Japanese children. When Brian's father started first grade, he only spoke Japanese. His teacher brought him home the first day of class. The teacher said to Brian's grandparents: "This is America. You teach your children English. You can't speak Japanese now." Growing up in the 50's as a Japanese elementary school kid was really tough. The prevailing attitude was to be more American than the Americans in order to avoid harassment. Japanese boys became eagle scouts (not just boy scouts). Every Japanese student was told to go out for one sport and letter. Every Japanese kid was expected to go to church every Sunday. They were told to serve in the military, which is what Brian's dad did. He served in Vietnam. The draft was big, but he enlisted. So what has it cost? What has it gained?

Brian said he has never experienced any racism growing up (then again, he did grow up in So. Cal. so perhaps he would have elsewhere? We don't know). Brian took a race and racism class during his undergraduate studies where he read a paper from around 1999/2000 that showed the Japanese Americans are still paid less for the same job than whites. So, racism (inequality) is still out there for his race.

As for the cost. Well, Brian's father doesn't speak Japanese. He's lost the language. He can understand when his mother speaks, but he can't speak the language himself. Brian nor any of his siblings have the language. Part of their heritage has been lost because of all of this. Brian and I would like to be able to instill in our children their Japanese heritage as much as we can, but there are certainly some obstacles that we're paying for from the after effects of WWII and the prevailing attitude towards Japanese-Americans during those years.

Some times I wonder if my children will experience racism. Hopefully not. I do get a lot of comments about our last name, some times people try to guess its origin. But, it's never been offensive, only curiosity that seems to prompt the interest.

Anyway, I've enjoyed this discussion about racism. I'm sorry you've encountered some ignorance about your heritage, Angela. I do have to say that I'm sorry that I've never pronounced your name right when we've talked. I thought about trying, but I'm not very good with accents and didn't want to butcher your name. I'm sorry.

Istari the Angel said...

Brian's family has a really interesting heritage, and I'm so glad you were willing to share his story with us. You mentioned the Japanese kids having to be more than average Americans, and it reminds me of a quote from the movie Selena, about a Tejano (Texan, but singing Spanish music) musician whose family heritage is Mexican. Her father told her that they were expected to be more American than the Americans, and because their homeland was so close to where they were, they were also expected to be more Mexican than the Mexicans, which is a lot of pressure to put on any kid. His comments came after she attained a certain level of fame and was invited to play a gig in Mexico, where her father was worried that she would have problems because her Spanish was less than perfect (similar problem, she grew up speaking only English to avoid ridicule or persecution). It frustrates me that I don't speak as much Spanish as I'd like, though there are idioms and phrases my whole family uses, even the ones who don't speak it at all. For example, all the adults and some of the older children call those younger than them their hito or hita, which is an affectionate form of son or daughter, used as a term of endearment even if the person addressed is not your actual child, very much like using -chan in Japanese.

As for my name, don't worry about it, I'm long used to it and I never hold it against anyone. My own sister took about five years to learn how to say it right, and adults used to ask her to say it her way when she was a toddler just for how amusing it looked and sounded. I actually prefer to go by many of my nicknames just for that reason. I'll answer to it just as easily in English, or to Istari, for that matter. No apology necessary. And BTW, tell Brian I think your last name sounds so cool! I don't know a lot of them outside anime, but I really like the sound of Japanese names. I had a student in Japan, little boy of about seven, named Katsuya. He was so playful, not a great student, but sweet and adorable, and I always liked hearing him say his own name.

Ruth said...

Oh sadness. I wrote a comment last night and just now realized it didn't stick. I'm going to try again but this is really annoying. This time I think it was because I was in too much of a hurry.

I wrote a lot more last time, but this time I'm keeping it shorter. Let's just say that I've really enjoyed reading all the comments so far. From Lynette's observation that Barack is unique, to Kate's sharing the stories of Brian's family, and Istari's first hand experience with race differences. I really want to know how Istari wants to pronounce her name. :)

I liked Lolo. I was impressed at how well he treated Barack. Maybe not as a son, but respectfully nonetheless. I don't really understand why he couldn't tell Barack's mother of all that he went through after his mandatory deportment and before they got married. Why did she have to find out from relatives? I felt sorry for him because, if I remember correctly, he realized that all his plans and dreams and ideals were going to be impossible. He was basicallly stuck. I think sometimes I take "the American Dream" for granted.

I also want to commend Barack's mother for her observations and decision to send Barack back to live in Hawaii. She realized that what he was seeing in Indonesia was not how she wanted him to grow up thinking the world worked.

One other thing that surprised me is Barack candidness about doing drugs, etc.. Did anyone confront him about his drug usage while he was running for president? Because I never heard anything of it. It brings to mind Clinton's infamous, "I smoked but didn't inhale." Though that is probably so infamous because it's such a wishy-washy statement.

I really wish I felt up to writing everything I lost and responses to your comments above. Maybe I'll throw them in here and there later. But for now I wanted to throw in a few more thoughts and questions.

Istari the Angel said...

My first name is Angela, and in Spanish it sounds very different. the An sounds like the word "on", the ge sounds like "heh" except a bit shorter, and the l is sharp, to make the "la" sound. Istari is a Sindarin translation of my first name, and I've used the nickname since college.

Kate said...

Ruth, in answer to your question about Obama's drug use - it has been discussed in the media (I heard about it on NPR a few times), but I think because he was so candid about it before he even became a political figure (this book was written before he went into politics), it hasn't been the issue it has been in the past. I don't think anyone condones his drug usage, but at the same time, he acknowledged his past and has moved on. At least, that's my impression. I don't really know a whole lot more than that.

Lynnette said...

I really liked Lolo too. I think the relationship between Obama and Lolo, and Obama's mother and Lolo was one of the most interesting parts of this section. I think Lolo represents a form of masculinity found in many cultures, but not necessarily in maninstream American culture, and least not recently. The way he interacts with Barack and his mother both stem from the fact that he is being a MAN. He cannot tell Barack's mother what is really happening because he feels like he should be able to deal with it himself. I think in many cultures it is not acceptable for a man to burden his woman with such troubles, and also it isn't believed that women can handle such things or be of any help under those type of circumstances. I could be way off, but that's my take on it.

And they way he interacts with Barack, it's like he's teaching him about being a man. He tries to show him how harsh the world really is so that he'll be tough enough to deal with it as he grows up.

As far as the drug use thing, I agree with what Kate said. I also think that it is almost expected that people will have drug use in their past - I think the common thinking today is, "doesn't everyone experiment in high school/college? And then you give it up when it's time to get serious." I think it has become the norm, and therefore not as much of a controversial issue.

Philip said...

I actually first read this book during the fall, immediately prior ro the election. I was taking an advanced rhetoric class, and the two main reading assigmnents were this book and Senator McCain's "Faith of My Fathers." By reading these two books in parallel, we were given a very unique insight into the lives of both men.

It's clear to me that Barack is an incredible writer, and absolutely succeeds at getting his views about race across. At many points, however, I feel that his attempts at honesty run into the realm of being unnecessarily wordy.

Ghostlibrarian said...

I finally finished the first reading. I'm frustrated at being so far behind but it couldn't be helped. I like the book but am enjoying the discussion at least as much. All of the hard subjects are being raised and I love it.

I too was surprised at Obama's candor concerning his drug and alcohol use but glad to see it. In a way the general lack of reaction to it is a reflection of changing attitudes in the U.S. Similar changes are apparent when it comes to race.

The discomfort that some of us feel is very natural and a part of everyone's personal journey. I think it's impossible to truly know what it is like to live in someone else's skin color. We just can't know what it's like for a salesperson to follow us around a store if it has never happened to us. Dreams of My Father helps us to get a whiff of what it would be like. Barak's angst over his racial duality is important as more multiracial families appear.

Discussions such as the one we're having here about race are extremely important. I grew up in Montana where the racial divide centers more on whites and native Americans than African Americans. I've had friends who were black but none who were native American. Now that I work in a school with many races I have to examine my own attitudes often. White privilege is something we don't notice or think about (if we're white) until it's pointed out. It's uncomfortable to think that we could merit success just because of the color of our skin. Since our system is so racist it's hard to see how things can change but I think they are. The very fact that Obama could become president is proof of that.

To my way of thinking, socio-economic problems are a major factor in many problems that appear to be racial. I wonder if that will change if we go deeper into this current recession. Why don't people just move? That question was once addressed by someone who went to a college I attended a few years ago. She came from a deep, bleak poverty and seemed to be raising herself up in a wonderful way. However, when talking about the family she left behind she said that they would never leave the projects. There is something about the familiar, something about what we already know that can hold us down. They didn't know how to do things that are basic for us. How do you study? How do you apply to a college? How do you schedule your time? Some of her relatives visited but did not stay. The fear of the unknown, even a possibly better future, can be too overwhelming for many.

I'm afraid I'll probably continue to be behind, especially since I'll be going back to work on Wednesday. Maybe I should just read the comments while I read the next section. Sorry for such a rambling post. I deeply appreciate all your comments and wish that I had more time to address each person who posted.

Istari the Angel said...

Interesting that you bring up Native Americans, Ghost, because that was something I left out of my post. I grew up in a town that, while primarily Hispanic, was also right on the edge of a reservation, Taos Pueblo, and I had many great friends from there, all of whom were very deeply involved in their culture even while they participated in everyday life with the rest of us, and I always admired them.

It also brings up a side topic, one I know at least Kate will understand. I'll *SPOILER MARK* for those who don't already know, but if anyone here has read any of the Twilight books, they give a rather negative message to Native American readers, because it's the (freakishly, vampiricly) pale white guy who ends up triumphing in getting the girl, even though in my view the Native American werewolf is by far the preferable choice in terms of personality and his actual relationship (to an extent) with the girl. One of many reasons I don't like those books. But that's a rant for another post.

Kate said...

Yay, Debra! I'm so glad to read your comments. You always have such insightful things to say. :)

Ha, Angela, I love how your distaste for the books carries over to other discussions. In the interest of keeping the peace (in case there are Twilight fans here), I'm not going to go into any lengthy commentary about Twilight. Continuing some of your argument, though, I do think that people get a lot of their impressions about race from media. It's up to us to be discerning viewers and readers and not always take things at face value from what we see or read.

I'm glad to see this discussion continuing. I don't want anyone to worry if they aren't able to contribute as quickly as others because of time constraints, etc. The nice thing about the blog is that we can join in whenever we're ready. I know some people might not have been able to start the book yet, and that's okay, too. I imagine not everyone will be able to read every book. I just hope that there will be a few who can each time so that we can have discussions like these. :)

Ghostlibrarian said...

Your comment about the media is good. I collaborate with our community cultures teacher one day a week to teach students to watch and listen critically to media messages. There are some things they understand, like gimmicks in commercials. However, when we tried to show the racism in Disney films it went over their heads (k-5). Don't get me wrong. I personally love many Disney films but people should be aware of what they're watching. Another thing to watch out for is the way women and girls are portrayed, but as with other topics raised, that's a rant for another time.

Ruth said...

Ghost,
Oh yeah. Don't even get me started on the way women and girls are portrayed. Have you ever watched the BET station on cable? I was only forced to watch it if someone in my apartment complex made it to the work-out room before I did. It makes me ill.
Kate brings up a good point about how races are portrayed in the media. I see all races portrayed in both good and bad light, but I agree that media is a very stong influence if we don't know how to filter the messages. But at the same time, like mentioned above, we've come a long way in how we see people. There's a lot of progress still to be made, but I'm proud of how far we've come.