The last two sentences of our first reading are: "Ender's isolation was over. The war was just beginning."
We didn't talk very much about Ender's initiation into the battle school, so let's go ahead and open that up to what your impressions were, what you thought about Graff's actions to isolate Ender and how Ender was able to overcome that isolation to start to make friends. This situation of Ender pitted against other peers is not something new - our first example was the situation with Stilson, another was Peter. Initially, it was the monitor that was the seeming cause of Ender's isolation and conflict with the other children around him, but even without the monitor, he's thrown into situations that test his fortitude.
Speaking of the war just beginning, we're also starting to meet the armies that make up the battle school. There is Salamander Army led by Bonzo Madrid and Rat Army led by Rose the Nose. Ender is able to observe the strengths and weaknesses of these armies and their commanders. Meanwhile, Ender's formed his own practice group wherein he not only works on his skills and technique for battle, but also his skills to lead. We see that Ender is able to think outside the accepted way to play the game, and is implementing his own strategies and unique approach to not only improve himself, but also change the game in a very dynamic way.
Ender's also troubled, and while he may be an incredible soldier and leader-in-training, he has some demons he has to face inside of himself. The Giant's Drink is one such example. What do you think about this game, and what do you think the teachers were trying to see from the students who play the game? When Ender kills the giant, he thinks how Peter would be proud of him. During the conversation between Valentine and Graff, we see more contrast between Peter and Ender and Ender's fear that he could ever be like Peter. Why do you think Ender fears so much to be like Peter?
Which brings me to Valentine and Peter. In the chapter "Locke and Demosthenes" we get to know Ender's siblings a little better. What do you think about Peter's goal to rule the world? It seems that he really desires to do good for the world, but how does that reconcile with his tendencies towards cruelty? It was commented in the discussion under the previous post that Valentine and Peter are somewhat one-dimensional, and while after this chapter I still feel that Valentine is a rather weak character, I find Peter fascinating. He has a dichotomy about him that makes me curious about what he really plans to do and how he's going to go about it. What do you think his motivation is? Do you believe he is the monster Valentine seems to think he is?
Finally, we've got the war with the buggers that Ender is at the battle school preparing for, and meanwhile, Peter and Valentine are preparing for a potential conflict on earth. Once again, I find the technology in this book ahead of its time with the use of the nets (which bears such strong resemblance to our internet) and the importance of written expression, which today we find in blogs (and tweets and status updates and whatever have you), and also like Valentine and Peter, we can hide our true identities online.
A lot was covered in these chapters, so if there is anything else that I haven't already pulled out to discuss, feel free to do so in your comments.
For next weekend, read through chapter 13, Valentine. I am having surgery on Friday morning to remove that mass in my chest. My surgeon hopes to accomplish the surgery using a minimally invasive technique, but even if that is successful, it's still major surgery and I don't know what to expect for recovery. Plan on me leading the discussion, but if I am unable to, I will let Angela know and she has agreed already to take over if I need her to. Happy reading!
We didn't talk very much about Ender's initiation into the battle school, so let's go ahead and open that up to what your impressions were, what you thought about Graff's actions to isolate Ender and how Ender was able to overcome that isolation to start to make friends. This situation of Ender pitted against other peers is not something new - our first example was the situation with Stilson, another was Peter. Initially, it was the monitor that was the seeming cause of Ender's isolation and conflict with the other children around him, but even without the monitor, he's thrown into situations that test his fortitude.
Speaking of the war just beginning, we're also starting to meet the armies that make up the battle school. There is Salamander Army led by Bonzo Madrid and Rat Army led by Rose the Nose. Ender is able to observe the strengths and weaknesses of these armies and their commanders. Meanwhile, Ender's formed his own practice group wherein he not only works on his skills and technique for battle, but also his skills to lead. We see that Ender is able to think outside the accepted way to play the game, and is implementing his own strategies and unique approach to not only improve himself, but also change the game in a very dynamic way.
Ender's also troubled, and while he may be an incredible soldier and leader-in-training, he has some demons he has to face inside of himself. The Giant's Drink is one such example. What do you think about this game, and what do you think the teachers were trying to see from the students who play the game? When Ender kills the giant, he thinks how Peter would be proud of him. During the conversation between Valentine and Graff, we see more contrast between Peter and Ender and Ender's fear that he could ever be like Peter. Why do you think Ender fears so much to be like Peter?
Which brings me to Valentine and Peter. In the chapter "Locke and Demosthenes" we get to know Ender's siblings a little better. What do you think about Peter's goal to rule the world? It seems that he really desires to do good for the world, but how does that reconcile with his tendencies towards cruelty? It was commented in the discussion under the previous post that Valentine and Peter are somewhat one-dimensional, and while after this chapter I still feel that Valentine is a rather weak character, I find Peter fascinating. He has a dichotomy about him that makes me curious about what he really plans to do and how he's going to go about it. What do you think his motivation is? Do you believe he is the monster Valentine seems to think he is?
Finally, we've got the war with the buggers that Ender is at the battle school preparing for, and meanwhile, Peter and Valentine are preparing for a potential conflict on earth. Once again, I find the technology in this book ahead of its time with the use of the nets (which bears such strong resemblance to our internet) and the importance of written expression, which today we find in blogs (and tweets and status updates and whatever have you), and also like Valentine and Peter, we can hide our true identities online.
A lot was covered in these chapters, so if there is anything else that I haven't already pulled out to discuss, feel free to do so in your comments.
For next weekend, read through chapter 13, Valentine. I am having surgery on Friday morning to remove that mass in my chest. My surgeon hopes to accomplish the surgery using a minimally invasive technique, but even if that is successful, it's still major surgery and I don't know what to expect for recovery. Plan on me leading the discussion, but if I am unable to, I will let Angela know and she has agreed already to take over if I need her to. Happy reading!
4 comments:
In these middle chapters I was always much more interested in Ender's life at battle school than in Peter and Valentine's plots back on earth. I think the reason is that I've never had much interest in politics, and that's the bottom line of Peter's ambitions, since he was unable to enter the military. Valentine is merely his counterbalance, very little of her own interests or desires is shown, and I agree with Kate that she's a bit one-dimensional still.
As for Ender at battle school, though having read the book and knowing where it progresses, I initially remember thinking how cruel the teachers were to him to force that sense of competition on him in order to make him try to belong and further develop his tactical and leadership skills. He's admirable in how he goes about it, setting up his own practices when his commander won't train him, recruiting other kids, and using his best judgment even when it countermands his orders.
As for the Giant's Drink, it kind of reminds me of that one test in Star Trek that's supposed to be impossible to win at, and how it's supposed to expose potential commanders to death and let them experience the fear of it. No matter what, the Giant kills you, unless you're prepared to kill first. It brings out that ruthlessness in a child like Ender who wouldn't kill until he had to, and shows him that side of himself. And when it comes to his comparisons with Peter, he experiences that fear all over again, not of death, but of killing. It's a part of himself that he knows is there, but fears and despises. Ender had to face fear and uncertainty of safety at Peter's hands, and he doesn't want to see that in himself, is really what it comes down to in my opinion.
It's hard to imagine that the players are little boys and a few girls. But if you remember that, it's easy to see how they can get so caught up in the game. Ender is no exception either, even though he approaches it so differently from the others.
The teachers have an extremely difficult task. They're trying somehow to mold someone into a compassionate killer. Peter is a psychopath so they can't use him. Valentine is too compassionate and wouldn't be the killer they need. So they play on Ender's powerful survival instinct trying to make sure that he is willing to kill but not too much. Of course, this can't help but mess with Ender's mind.
Left to their own devices Peter and Valentine play a different sort of game. It's no surprise that Peter wants to rule the world but he knows himself well enough to know that his psychopathic ways aren't going to work. I thought it was strange that he would choose to be Locke but it was the right choice. Perhaps thinking the way Locke thought was what he needed to mellow enough to really become a ruler. There still isn't very much to say about Valentine. She's just sort of a stereotypical female, which I think is disappointing.
I just think Ender is so cool. He’s got everything going against him and he manages to overcome it. The way he handled things when first arriving at the battle school was so impressive to me. He managed to subtly but very effectively repair the damage done by Graff on the ship. It reminds me of a situation I also love how analytical he is, but at the same time very sensitive and self-aware. He’s constantly evaluating and learning from everyone else and himself.
The game. It’s really weird. There was one point in the book that made me think that there was a similarity in the giant’s death and the way humans died during the first war with the buggers. I don’t remember exactly what it was though. Something about the way the brain looked. So, I wonder if the game takes some of those details that are foreign to us, the readers, but integrates them for the players. It’s a psychological game, but it’s interesting that the teachers themselves have not idea at this point what the game will do. So how can they analyze Ender from his actions in the game? It’s impressive how much outside the box Ender is able to think.
I think Ender fears so much to be like Peter because he was so scared of him and tormented by him. Who would want that? Unfortunately, in our society we often find people emulating behavior that they hated suffering from growing up. Like abuse. I think Ender has a legitimate fear of becoming like Peter. But does being aware of it and wanting to avoid it, like victims of abuse, really help them from becoming what they fear? I can see attitudes and behavior in myself that I didn’t like seeing in my Dad. It can be scary when I realize I’m acting in ways that I dislike.
I agree that Valentine is somewhat bland, but I think her thoughts and analysis of Peter are fascinating. Who is this guy anyway?!? Does HE even really know?
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