What does it mean to be pretty? Why is it even important? I'm sure we're all familiar with the adage that beauty is only skin deep, yet our society continues its manic self-absorption with physical appearance (one needs only look at the magazines displayed at the grocery check-out to see examples of this obsession). In his novel, Uglies, Westerfeld creates a society where everyone is pretty, or at least, where everyone eventually can become pretty. Why do you think physical beauty is so important in Tally's society? Do people want to be pretty in Tally's society for the same reasons that we want to be pretty in our society? What message do you think Westerfeld is trying to give with this premise of "turning pretty" in his novel?
What do you think of the contempt that Tally's people have for the Rusties? As Tally was taught in school: "The Rusty Ruins were the remains of an old city, a hulking reminder of back when there'd been way too many people, and everyone was incredibly stupid. And ugly." Has Tally's society been able to eradicate these faults of the Rusties from their own society? What does Tally learn from her night visit with Shay to the Rusty Ruins?
As always, these are just questions to help initiate discussion about this first section of the reading. I'm more interested in hearing what you want to talk about, so let the discussion commence!
[Read Part II: The Smoke for next week's discussion beginning Friday, May 20th.]
What do you think of the contempt that Tally's people have for the Rusties? As Tally was taught in school: "The Rusty Ruins were the remains of an old city, a hulking reminder of back when there'd been way too many people, and everyone was incredibly stupid. And ugly." Has Tally's society been able to eradicate these faults of the Rusties from their own society? What does Tally learn from her night visit with Shay to the Rusty Ruins?
As always, these are just questions to help initiate discussion about this first section of the reading. I'm more interested in hearing what you want to talk about, so let the discussion commence!
[Read Part II: The Smoke for next week's discussion beginning Friday, May 20th.]
6 comments:
I caught up and finished reading this morning, and quite frankly, while I'm enjoying the read, I'm sickened by the society's overwhelming obsession with the concept of being pretty. I do hope we find out more, but for right now I have a lot of questions. Who decided what "pretty" looks like, and that everyone needs it? Why do these people not seem to have the choice of being pretty or not, as we ultimately learn at the end of this section from the Special Circumstances people? It reminded me very much of The Giver in the way so may aspects of society are controlled, though these guys seem to have a lot more freedom to do things like play tricks.
I think beauty is a status symbol and an equalizer all at the same time in this society, status symbol because it's something you look forward to achieving (though you don't actually achieve anything, you just have a birthday and have it happen) and an equalizer because everyone does get equal status once they've been changed. That only matters because in that period between being little enough to be cute and old enough to have your features altered you are ostracized, reminded again and again, even down to nicknames that pick out your less-than-beautiful features that constantly remind you that you are flawed, and that you can be perfected at a certain point. As for the Rusties, from what I can tell so far, the contempt is indoctrinated from youth, so that these people think that way only because they are trained to. Not sure yet what the people in charge actually know or think about them, except that they are rebels, and are a source of interruption and interference in their perfect, ordered world. The Rusties had their problems, overpopulation definitely being one, if I'm to guess that they refer to our current society, but I don't think that regulating the lives of people and teaching them that pretty is the most important thing is much of an improvement. People are still ignorant of what the real world is, how nature works, just because it's easier and less hassle for them to stay in their cities. Sounds like they've made some improvements in energy though. I already am looking to the Rusties as "real people" in a world full of clones of superficial beauty (the beauty operation is kind of scary sounding thus far, and I can only imagine how they went about learning to do it) and am looking forward to meeting this David and seeing what their lives are like in their fringe society. I dunno, these are my initial thoughts, and more will probably occur as we continue, but for now I'm still kind of waiting to see what's coming.
I'm also rather sickened by the concept of pretty vs. ugly. Truth be told, even now, I generally am not one to be obsessed with beauty and the like. I mean, I guess I'll recognize it when I see it, but you could ask me to name which actors/actresses I think are the most pretty, and really I'd have a very, very short list (though part of that may be due to my just having a bad memory for many actors).
As for why the people in Tally's society want to be Pretty, its not for the same reason as today, I think. For one it just seems a given to them, that once they hit 16 it happens. Its a constant of their world, like the flow of the tides, rise and fall of the sun/moon. So they see it as a given. For us, its more of something earned, sometimes, and sometimes something just...granted, I guess, by the luck of good genes or just luck in general. Due to that aspect of being earned/truly random luck, we appreciate it more whereas Tally's society doesn't.
I want to agree with Angela about how it seems the kids are indoctrinated about the contempt for the Rusties, and really about everything I think. This brings up a point she and I talked about briefly actually. I can't help but think that there is something more to the operation to become Pretty than we know. By that I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some mental component, something mind altering in a way. The bit we've heard about the operation makes it seem extremely invasive physically, so it wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination for something to be done to the mind as well.
Back to the Rusties, I was rather intrigued to see how Tally was surprised by the roller coaster and all that. The trip to the ruins was a bit eye opening for her in that regard, that yes, we Rusties like to have fun. Of course we do. But her surprise...
While reading all through this, I can't help but think to myself that I'm glad to be a "Rusty." Granted, when seeing it through Tally's eyes, our lives are rather strange. But to be fair, the lives of those from around 1500 were rather strange too. Can you imagine not having indoor plumbing, for example? The clothes, the lifestyle...it all seems rather backwards to us now. Time makes fools of us all, as the saying goes.
I really want to learn more about the operation. I'm sure there's more to it. Gotta be.
The internet connection here is not too good so I'm not sure if this will go through or not. I wanted to comment before I start reading the next section.
To me, the main reason to become pretty was to do away with most of the differences between people. I think that they looked on Rusties as stupid because they judged people on the basis of things like skin color, something that can be easily changed. If people are all basically alike, there's no reason for things like discrimination. Truth be told though, there's still going to be bias in the population. I doubt that they've been totally successful in this quest.
I was very interested in why they made made the Special Circumstances people look the way they did. They're pretty but menacing in order to do their job. I can't help but wonder how much truth there is to this notion. How much are we affected by the look of the person in front of us?
I found myself really rooting for Tally and immensely disappointed when she did not get the chance to become pretty like she wanted. It seems grossly unfair to use someone in that way, especially the one who stayed, the one who even tried to talk her friend into staying. I found myself very sad for her after this section.
I’m not very good at compiling my thoughts about a book so this is probably going to be disjointed… but hopefully you’ll get it.
After thinking about what I’ve read so far, I made a connection I hadn’t made the last time I read this book. This society is messed up. It’s almost like an imagining of a future where Hitler succeeded at creating his dream. Hitler wanted to create the perfect race and it seems like this is a society that is trying (and seemingly succeeding) to be a ‘perfect’ race. The problem I see is that perfect is a very subjective term. Perfection is different for different people. On a side note, I think it would be cool to read a prequel about how the world became this way.
Another thing came to mind as I was reading. Who is in charge? There is no real explanation of how the government works or anything about specific people who are leaders. I think this is actually a great way that the author has been able to portray how this society just does what it’s told and taught and doesn’t ask questions. The explanations that Tally and her peers are given about the way their society works is that they wanted to create equality for everyone. It seems that their intentions were good but the results of trying to create this equality are not so good. Free agency, choice and independent thought are pretty much nonexistent in the society.
The people in the society’s lives are so limited. I mean, they can’t even leave the city. Can you imagine not being able to go hiking or to the beach? Now can you imagine not even knowing that that possibility even exists?
I was a little bit bothered by the Pretties….or at least all the young ones. All they do is party all night, drink alcohol and do drugs (or at least that’s the impression I got). It was confusing to me why such a controlling society would encourage such behavior in their citizens but then I realized that maybe it’s because it’s their way of ‘controlling’ the people. Getting them hooked on addictive behaviors and making them think that life is one big party and giving them the illusion that they are doing whatever they want is a perfect way to control a person without having to worry too much about them thinking for themselves. We see plenty of that today in our society…where people have become addicted to certain behaviors and/or substances and think they’re on top of the world but are really chained down by the very things that make them feel so free.
I'm so glad to see so many participating. Thanks for the great comments. I'm hoping that we can comment even more now that we're through the second part this week. I'll put that discussion post up shortly.
In the meantime, I just wanted to address some of the comments made. In order to kind of keep it somewhat organized, I'll just go by person in order as they posted. Feel free to respond back. Even though we've moved on to the next section, that doesn't mean we can't discuss this section anymore.
Angela - you mentioned that turning pretty is both a status symbol and an equalizer. I agree that it is a status symbol in that it's something that the ugly kids really anticipate, and before they are invited into the club, so to speak, they are ostracized from their pretty peers. However, I don't think that turning pretty is necessarily an equalizer. Maybe generally for society, but as we saw at the very end of this section, there is a sub-group of pretties called Special Circumstances, and while we don't know much about them, we do realize that they actually hold some semblance of power. There appears to be some sort of hierarchy going on, and society doesn't seem to be as utopian as we first may perceive. I agree that this society has been indoctrinated about the Rusties civilization.
Maenos - I like the point you made about how we view our history. I'm sure most people think we're pretty enlightened in our digital age. My own kids have given me stunned looks when I've mentioned that I didn't grow up with a cell phone or even a computer for that matter. We take so much for granted. But, the important things like values shouldn't have to change, I don't think. Sure, the conveniences of life - inventions and such that make our lives easier are good, but deep down, we're all human beings with the same needs to feel loved and accepted. Also, very perceptive in your comments...
Debra - I agree with you, it sounds like the original intent of making people pretty was to homogenize the population, but that probably won't do away with bias (and maybe initially the goal wasn't even to make people "pretty" so much as just make them the same (but maybe to get people to buy into the idea, they sold it as becoming pretty?)). Unfortunately, having a bias seems to be ingrained in us, but I think the key is recognizing it and dealing with it appropriately. In this society, they wanted to run away from owning up to their weaknesses and just remove the issue altogether. But, as you said Debra, they probably haven't entirely succeeded.
Havilah - I found myself wanting to read a prequel about how this society actually came about, too. I have been so curious about how they eventually came to developing the technology that they did. From what we've gathered, the Rusties has a pretty bad disaster happen that seemed to wipe out much of the population. So, it seems pretty amazing to me that what remained of the population really pulled together and no only survived but developed such amazing technology such that they look back at the Rusty civilization and see it as wasteful. (Although I will agree that we are a pretty wasteful and consumer-driven society.). You mentioned how the people in this society are limited in their choices and how they are basically controlled in how they live their lives. If they aren't being brainwashed, they are being manipulated. The result is a society that is so numb that it doesn't even occur to them to want to leave the city, uglies and pretties alike.
I need to take my son to a birthday party now, so I'll have the second discussion post up tonight. I'm sorry I'm a day late.
I think for the general population being pretty really is an equalizer, because it seems like most of them don't really believe in the Special Circumstances people...it's like a rumor or story to scare children into behaving, if you misbehave the bogeyman will come and get you, if you screw up bad enough, Special Circumstances will come and get you and not turn you pretty. I almost relate it to parents telling naughty children that Santa won't come, except that the reality is that it will affect your whole future if it really happens. I've finished the second section so I have much more to say, but for now I'll leave it here.
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